Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

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Re: Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:44 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:Spot, the reason for concern is that Vajrayana is a very powerful and swift path, and its karmic weightiness reflects that power. One can be profoundly led astray by a false teacher on the path of Vajrayana and one's path ruined for this and many lifetimes. Even in an ordinary sense, if someone came to a have a lot of trust in this woman and open up to her and consider her their guru, and she was then to shatter that trust, it may well shatter their ability to trust in the authenticity of the Vajrayana path and certainly in any sort of spiritual guide after that.
Indeed! Angulimala, for example, also had immense faith and trust in his original guru, "luckily" for him the Buddha came along and showed him the true path to liberation!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

Postby smcj » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:44 pm

When you took Vajrayana empowerment, among the many pledges and commitments you made were Fourteen root vows, the transgression of which constitutes a tantric downfall: The downfalls are:....14,Criticizing women.

I think that in its entirety rule #14 reads something like; "Disparaging women as being inferior".

:rules:
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

Postby spot dawa » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:44 pm

As a student of Buddhism for many years, I can appreciate the perspective presented here on the importance of lineage and preservation of the Tulku lineages. Since I began participating in this thread, however, I have come across some new and intriguing facts regarding the phenomena of "transmission."

In the Hindu traditions of the Naga Baba's, renunciate yogis of India, it seems that what is being described by American Baba Rampuri in his book Autobiography of Sadhu is a kind of actual possession of disciples by the consciousness/spirit of their guru, and by the spirit of "Baba" who he says "is not a man." He further states in public talks that there are many different types of spirits being transmitted through the clans of Naga Babas. The process of initiation, devotion, and discipline of the disciple is seen therefore as preparing the ground for the entrance of this retinue of realized consciousness, which is continuously in human form as a result.

I know that this is not a Hindu board; however it strikes me that what happened to Rampuri in the case of his being possessed by his guru after his death -- without his full understanding of the reality of this process, as such things can sound like devotional ether when being discussed -- could this process not be similar to the one experienced by Tara aka Domo Geshe? Tara apparently sells Tibetan jewelry to support her work, so clearly she isn't claiming to be Domo Geshe and only Domo Geshe, just as Rampuri had to come to grips with what had happened to him after the fact of that experience; his guru was inside him, had become part of him, but had not erased him.

I understand also the importance of relying on tradition and teaching; this theory does not fit into the concept of Tulku lineages; but if it is a real thing that happens, seems good to know that in light of cases like this one. If Domo Geshe Rinpoche is enough of a yogi to pull this off, how does that shine light on any personal aversion to Tara's claims? Do you want to dissociate from that link to your own traditions, because of your aversion to the idea?

For me, this is all just food for thought, and I hope it is for others as well.
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Re: Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:59 am

If Domo Geshe Rinpoche is enough of a yogi to pull this off, how does that shine light on any personal aversion to Tara's claims? Do you want to dissociate from that link to your own traditions, because of your aversion to the idea?


I cannot say that the previous Domo Geshe Rinpoche was not highly attained enough to manage that. But I don't think it is relevant to Tara's claims. This is because no qualified master aside from herself has authenticated them, while qualified masters have authenticated the other tulkus.

It is not the idea itself that I have the aversion to but Tara's behaviour as I have seen in her videos and heard from her students. I have been approached via email from 2 people connected with her who doubt her claims simply because her behaviour with her students is not very compassionate. I also have heard enough Westerners faking Tibetan accents during my years in idea to recognized affected mispronunciations when I hear them. And, I have never heard Tara speak Tibetan, which, if she really has "downloaded" the consciousness of Domo Geshe, she should be able to do perfectly. (Of course it wouldn't be a perfect indication, but it would be moving in the right direction).

To be honest I am surprised at how people are prepared to accept her claims at face value, but maybe she has a charisma that I just don't connect with and others do.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

Postby spot dawa » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:49 am

JKhedrup wrote:It is not the idea itself that I have the aversion to but Tara's behaviour as I have seen in her videos and heard from her students. I have been approached via email from 2 people connected with her who doubt her claims simply because her behaviour with her students is not very compassionate. I also have heard enough Westerners faking Tibetan accents during my years in idea to recognized affected mispronunciations when I hear them. And, I have never heard Tara speak Tibetan, which, if she really has "downloaded" the consciousness of Domo Geshe, she should be able to do perfectly. (Of course it wouldn't be a perfect indication, but it would be moving in the right direction).

To be honest I am surprised at how people are prepared to accept her claims at face value, but maybe she has a charisma that I just don't connect with and others do.


Thanks JKhedrup. I think these observations of personal behavior are indeed bad indicators. As I recall however, bad behavior is not absent in the behavior of saints or arhants or bodhisattvas or even tulkus! Now I personally was turned off by the photograph on her book cover; her smirkish smile told me volumes about the difficulties I would have if I met her personally and attempted to interact with her. That I find troubling, but only mildly so.

I do not in fact take her claims at any value at all. I suppose some reading this thread will suspect me of being her shill, but I wouldn't recommend anyone take personal teachings from her much less ordination or discipleship. I don't recall ever being asked for my opinion from anyone taking a guru before though so....

The one redeeming feature that I can say of her is that her book touched me rather profoundly as Dharma books go. For that I am grateful to her. Have I been mislead by her? I doubt it, since I read many books I do not agree with and do not fear being misled by them. Reading that book led me into new territory in my capacity for renunciation based on a clearer view of emptiness. Some of her comments seemed to be "fillers" but in fact she was following Chandrakirti's Twenty Emptinesses pretty closely. I don't know, but I don't think the authenticity of her lineage or the absolute truth of her words has ever been a criterion of mine, not for her, not for anybody.

The Sadhu Rampuri who described his experience of receiving the transmission of, or being possessed by, the consciousness of his teacher -- and a whole retinue of gurus, speaking of lineage -- still retained his own personality and basic sense of control over his mind and body. I do not know that he became fluent in the languages (many) that his guru had mastered. I do not know enough about his apparently real phenomenon to say that this is a qualifying test of the authenticity of the transmission. Perhaps, very likely, it is something much more subtle than that which unfolds over time.

If something like that had happened to me, I suppose I would be in the same boat that she seems to be in. So, you're still controlled by kleshas; but you have this spiritual master in your mind with you; I don't think the guru is interested in being returned to sender; checkmate! Go crazy girl and do whatever your guru tells you to, that's what you signed up for. Apparently!
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Re: Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:03 am

Spot Dawa,

Your approach seems very sane, and of course I leave room for the possibility that some of her teachings are good. Sorry if my above tone seemed judgemental of you, it wasn't my intention.

:namaste: Khedrup
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

Postby spot dawa » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:48 am

JKhedrup wrote:Sorry if my above tone seemed judgemental of you, it wasn't my intention.

:namaste: Khedrup


Not at all, Khedrup! We do miss a lot in terms of verbal tone and body language attempting to be gracious through this medium. I did not pick up any personal judgment or animosity from you, nor was I projecting any defensiveness intentionally through my remarks.

On the contrary, I considered leaving my interest in this Hindu tradition off this board entirely because I understand the feeling of wishing to defend the Dharma, and to defend others on the path from bad influences and incorrect views. That is what I have picked up from you here, which seems to me more loving than judgmental. I decided to include it, partly just because it is so new to me and so compelling in many ways. My sincere apologies if it has disturbed anyone's well-placed faith in Buddhadharma.

I am happy to have elicited the response from someone here that her teachings may not be 100 percent mistaken; that little bit of generosity is all I was after on your behalf. So I've had my say on this thread. Also, this thread is what brought me to this board, so I will sign off now and wish all of you the best here on Dharma Wheel.

True Dharma is active, not descriptive; to be experienced directly, not merely intellectually. Namaste
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Re: Norbu House & Domo Geshe Rinpoche

Postby kirtu » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:53 am

spot dawa wrote:As I recall however, bad behavior is not absent in the behavior of saints or arhants or bodhisattvas or even tulkus!


Most tulkus are not on the bhumis and are reborn karmically. Some are true Bodhisattvas reborn strictly from the force of Bodhicitta. The higher tulkus are real Bodhisattvas on the bhumsi.

You will never see bad behavior in an Arhant/Arhat. Never. They may display behavior that is not polite but it is never immoral or sketchy in any sense. Truly impolite behavior in an Arhat is also probably not possible as long as they suspect that it is impolite. If they know that the behavior is impolite in a particular culture then that won't happen either. But bad behavior, immoral behavior you will never see in an Arhat. They are incapable of this.

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