Huseng wrote:Without words, there is no basis for initial understanding.
Huseng wrote:If there is no initial understanding, there is no right view.
Huifeng wrote:I guess one has to climb the 100 foot pole, before jumping off the end of it.
How many readers, who are "seeking" things that they call "spiritual", are now causing nothing but harm to themselves, and to the others (not to say about their attempts to "teach" the others based on their so-called "initial understanding")?
Now please tell me: what "thing" actually causes "real" seekers to seek, and, eventually, arrive at some sort of teaching, say, Chan?
Is that view "right" (the view that is based on the "initial understanding", that is in turn based on the "words" perceived by readers/practitioners)? That is my question.
Huseng wrote:Me wrote:Now please tell me: what "thing" actually causes "real" seekers to seek, and, eventually, arrive at some sort of teaching, say, Chan?
Your question doesn't make much sense. It sounds like you're trying to prove your subtle intellectual prowess by asking rhetorical questions.
Huseng wrote:You have to start somewhere don't you?
Astus wrote:Cleary's translation (Buddhist Yoga - A Comprehensive Course, p. 7-8) of the Xuanzang translation (T676, 解深密經) of the Samdhinirmocana Sutra, in chapter 2, says:
"If people are not ignorant, and have seen the holy truths, and have attained the wisdom of sages, and know the true nature of all things beyond words as it really is, when they see or hear of the created and the uncreated they think that there really is no such thing as the created or the uncreated, but there are active forms created by discrimination, which are like magical effects deceiving the intellect into producing notions of created and uncreated, or notions of difference between created and uncreated. They do not cling to what they have seen or heard, or claim it is the only truth. In order to convey this point, they too make verbal explanations. They do not need to examine further.
"In this way, in the midst of these things, sages detach from names and words by knowledge and insight, and therefore realize enlightenment. Then, because they want to make others aware of this real nature which is beyond words, they provisionally set up names and characteristics and call things created or uncreated."
Then, to restate this point, Unlocking the Implicit Intent of the Profound Doctrine said in verse:
Buddha explains the meaning of nonduality beyond words;
It is most profound, beyond the scope of the ignorant.
The ignorant, confused by delusion about this,
Cling to duality and make false descriptions;
They are either unsettled or fixed in error
And revolve forever in the pains of birth and death.
Still repudiating discourse on true knowledge like this,
They will be reborn as goats and sheep.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests