New Kadampa Tradition

[Heruka]

do you have any reference for the above statement about Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche?
Please do not be so quick to criticize Je Pabongkha, as many Gelugpas lineages come through Pabongkha, and many Gelugpas are practising sadhanas/six session yoga written by Pabongkha himself.

Thanks,

I think Pabongkha's letters to Chinese general opens him to many many criticisms, thats historical fact, also the rewriting of dakini sadhanas and six yogas as you mention, and he did that by himself, for himself without any help from members here.

with all that, then when one understands the whole picture, his beloved gyalpo spirit worship etc, one should look objectively at all his activity and ask if it is really worthy of some naive fanboy worship?


i have no answers to give, only questions to ask.

[Heruka]

Spirit worship, statues, temples etc done in name and honor of spirits is not the focus in Buddhism, that is distraction, or Buddhism becomes like voodoo magic, with only mindless zombies to control. for some priest caste, this is the idea LOL. much easier to pick a zombies pockets...LOL pay for your salvation.

its classic crisis/solution management, create a crisis, then offer the solution....lol

The notion that magic can govern the actions is all in the mind, magic only exists in the mind, no where else. If some wish to elevate a spirit to that of a Buddha hero to worship and ask it to bestow riches and crush enemies to dust and so on, that really is a mental sickness in my honest opinion.
It will lure many a naive practitioner into wrong paths.

[ground]

Be that as it may be. I find Lama Pabongkha's "Liberation in the palm of your hand" very inspiring and I am very grateful for this blessing.

Kind regards

[Heruka]

Be that as it may be. I find Lama Pabongkha's "Liberation in the palm of your hand" very inspiring and I am very grateful for this blessing.

Kind regards

lol, ok...

an argument is a juxtaposed opinion or fact defended vigorously, metaphysical blessings and fairy inspiration is the hidden enemy in plain sight, the religious enemy to reason.....lol

very good.

[ground]

I do not envy you.

Kind regards

[Heruka]

I do not envy you.

Kind regards

thank you.

kind regards also.

[catmoon]

Would I be correct in assuming that this entire discussion violates the Terms of Use for this board?

[ronnewmexico]

Heruka

I agree with you in concept on this issue, however if one has the opinion that all one sees is mind, the employment of other things then takes on a differing perspective.

While some may call that perspective a sickness, one who has such a sickness may call that sickness a sickness which through being sick leads one to understand the nature of such sicknesses.

I find it not a sickness but don't mind if others do.

As nothing has ultimate reality the unreal or considered unreal then becomes not as significant.
WE all must, I hold, as Millarepa stated...find the cave demoness to not be expelled unless we see clearly the reality of our own mind. But nothing states the cave demoness is not as real as we are real. DEmons dieties all sorts of things are all of course of the nature of mind. The question then begets...what is the nature of mind, and what is a real in this mind and what is not.

Nor do I find that such may not have conceptual useage in this realm in which all is conception.
Such to my opinion is the nature of tantra. Not that there is a shred of reality or inherant existance in anything but that all is unreal and all may be used.

Diety without a quality of inherant existant lack..I firmly agree that leads eventually to a lesser end to my opinion.

[plwk]

Would I be correct in assuming that this entire discussion violates the Terms of Use for this board?

Not if one has something N&N to say abt NKT...applies elsewhere too...it seems...this topic is so retro...

[Heruka]

agreed,

shugden gyalpo does not refuge with kelsangs nkt, it has moved onto a more silent, less rock star rinpoche.

awareness can know which one.

it is still present,

better the devil you know....than the one you do not.

[ground]

I think it is important to continuously cultivate bodhicitta and to rely on one's own direct perception of phenomena in the context of having attained a stable form of bodhicitta. Since I am a failure as to sucessful practice of the former I suspect that am tending to mistake hearsay and erroneous thought for the latter.

Kind regards

[narraboth]

regardless about that 'dharma protector' issue...
I have doubts.

1. Does anyone know where NKT got those 'monks' and 'nuns' from?

In NKT groups there are lots of monks. They claim that they are Gelung (Bikkchu).
Base on Vinaya which was said by Buddha himself, after Buddha passing away, you will need at least 5 qualified Bikkchu to make a lay person Bikkchu.
But in the beginning obviously only Geshe Kazang Gyaltsho is a Bikkchu. How the other Bikkchu then generated??
One of my friends talked to a monk in NKT, he said something, I am not sure if it's true:
They claim that if you receive an empowerment, you can be a Bikkchu. (OMG!)
So, is there anyone can tell me, what's their Partimorksha vow lineage? If there is none, how can they wear monks robe then?

2. why claim 'pure Kadampa?'

When they said they are 'purer' than current Gelugpa, I guess they mean the current gelugpa got too much stuff from other schools, like Nyingma. Fine. But see what they are mainly practicing: vajrayogini....... that's a Sakya teaching. Oh, it's a new version of vajrayogini by Papongka rinpoche. how he got the new version? oh, pure vision. then why they are against pure vision lineage teaching in like Nyingma school?
I mean, they are not that traditional Kadampa are they? then why criticise others?

[plwk]

Before it becomes a free-for-all Gelugpa & its lineage masters bashing and other unwholesomeness , may I request the venerable Mods/Admin to pls end this thread.

Nothing good as I have observed on many boards come out from discussing this topic.

Ever...

Namo Gurubhyah!
Namo Buddhaya!
Namo Dharmaya!
Namo Sanghaya!

SANG GYE CHO DANG TSOG KYI CHOG NAM LA
JANG CHUB BAR DU DAG NI KYAB SU CHI
DAG GI JIN SOK GYI PAY SO NAM KYI
DRO LA PAN CHIR SANG GYE DRUB PAR SHOG!

GANG RI RAWE KORWAI SHING KHAM DIR
PEN DANG DEWA MALU GYUNG WAI NE
CHENREZIG WANG TENZIN GYATSO YI
SHA PEI SITHAI BARDU DEN GYUR CHIG!

[Josef]

Before it becomes a free-for-all Gelugpa & its lineage masters bashing and other unwholesomeness , may I request the venerable Mods/Admin to pls end this thread.

Nothing good as I have observed on many boards come out from discussing this topic.

Ever...

Seconded.

[BFS]

Before it becomes a free-for-all Gelugpa & its lineage masters bashing and other unwholesomeness , may I request the venerable Mods/Admin to pls end this thread.

Nothing good as I have observed on many boards come out from discussing this topic.

Ever...

[catmoon]

Interesting. I have never before seen so many people involved in an NKT discussion who were so keenly aware that it is a large and very dangerous minefield.

[Ngawang Drolma]

Hi folksl,

The original question has been answered and this thread has served its purpose.

Best,
Laura

[tamdrin]

According to Tsem Tulku Setrap is a Buddha and can be taken refuge in. I have heard that Setrap is somehow related to shugden. Is Setrap good to rely on or is this only a gelukpa thing?

[ngodrup]

He seems to be the main "special" protector of Ganden Shartse.
If you are related to this monastery, it's ok. Follow the advice of
your root lama.

[Heruka]

the connection to gyalpo shugden is there, so tred careful, setrap not for the uninformed.

all the best.