bit of confusion - 5 colors

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bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:50 pm

Got a practice for five colors/5 dhyani Buddhas..it seems like some places the colors for Vairocana/Buddha family and Akshobya/Vajra family are reversed from my notes.

Is there some variance or did I just write stuff down wrong? I think I have seen them reversed also different places on the web.
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is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby Knotty Veneer » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:53 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Got a practice for five colors/5 dhyani Buddhas..it seems like some places the colors for Vairocana/Buddha family and Akshobya/Vajra family are reversed from my notes.

Is there some variance or did I just write stuff down wrong? I think I have seen them reversed also different places on the web.


Vairocana is usually white and Akshobya blue. Never heard of other colors for these - what tradition is the practice from?
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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:00 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Got a practice for five colors/5 dhyani Buddhas..it seems like some places the colors for Vairocana/Buddha family and Akshobya/Vajra family are reversed from my notes.

Is there some variance or did I just write stuff down wrong? I think I have seen them reversed also different places on the web.


Vairocana is usually white and Akshobya blue. Never heard of other colors for these - what tradition is the practice from?


Sakya.

That is how the practice was, Vairocana white and Akshobya blue, but we didn't spend alot of time talking about the atrributes of each Buddha, posion, etc. so I wanted a quick reference and now i'm just looking up stuff on the web and finding ones where Vajra and Buddha families are reversed...and course I want to do it as intended heh. I think I have it right, was just wondering why some are reversed.

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/05/ ... a-v-lewis/
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... AQ&dur=317
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby michaelb » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:44 pm

I think, as tantra developed and the Vajra family became more important, Akshobya or other vajra family heruka went to the centre of the mandala and became white. I'm sure this is how Snellgrove explained it, anyway. I think he also says Vajrayana only became a term for secret mantra once the vajra family became dominant. Vairochana is only really dominant in the lower tantras, if I remember rightly.
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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:57 pm

michaelb wrote:I think, as tantra developed and the Vajra family became more important, Akshobya or other vajra family heruka went to the centre of the mandala and became white. I'm sure this is how Snellgrove explained it, anyway. I think he also says Vajrayana only became a term for secret mantra once the vajra family became dominant. Vairochana is only really dominant in the lower tantras, if I remember rightly.
Hmm, but generally Vairochana is white and Akshobya is blue. Including in HYT. So while those links might be correct, Johnny's notes are correct too.
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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby heart » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:49 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Got a practice for five colors/5 dhyani Buddhas..it seems like some places the colors for Vairocana/Buddha family and Akshobya/Vajra family are reversed from my notes.

Is there some variance or did I just write stuff down wrong? I think I have seen them reversed also different places on the web.


Yes, the white and the blue can change place, it is quite common.

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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby Lingpupa » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:13 am

heart wrote:Yes, the white and the blue can change place, it is quite common.

/magnus

Quite true. And I believe that in some cycles, whereas yellow Ratnasambhava has a yellow light (and red+red, green+green), Akshobhya and Vairocana can be blue radiating white light and white radiating blue light.

So they can vary, it's not that you got it wrong. It's therefore very important to check exactly what is in the teaching you have been given. Go back to the source if necessary.
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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:54 pm

"Vairocana is not just the color blue, Vajrasattva is not just the color white in that sequence, but Vairocana arises with all five colors; blue, white, red, yellow, and green."

-- Vajrasattva's Heart Mirror Tantra
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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby heart » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:"Vairocana is not just the color blue, Vajrasattva is not just the color white in that sequence, but Vairocana arises with all five colors; blue, white, red, yellow, and green."

-- Vajrasattva's Heart Mirror Tantra


Nice to see you Malcolm, good quote. :smile:

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Re: bit of confusion - 5 colors

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:56 pm

Well, thanks all, I know how to do the practice as I received it now, which I guess is the important thing. Interesting to know some possible historical reasons behind the switch too though.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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