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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:12 am 
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I have a friend who recently broke off an engagement we made, citing the excuse that he had a rescheduled exam. I noticed on a mutual friend's facebook page that he was in fact at the beach on that day! :applause:

So, what do you think I should do?

1) Tell him and tell him I am offended?
I feel like this would embarrass him, possibly end our friendship or make it awkward. It could bring mental harm to him. Since I hope to avoid that, I am very weary of this, though it was my first impulse, and had I not decided to think things over, I would likely have immediately reacted by telling him in an admonishing manner.

2) Forgive him and tell him?
I could say, I don't mind, but I know that you lied to me. Another possibility is to tell him at a later time, when he knows that I have forgiven him by not reacting negatively at a prior time. Also, I don't feel like I am the type of person who naturally comes across as giving advice or helping others to improve in interpersonal matters, it has just never been my strong suit.

3) Forgive him and not tell him?
This strikes me as an interesting option for a number of reasons. Not only does it feel more compassionate, but I can give him another chance before judging that he needs to be told for his own good.

I am interested in your thoughts. Perhaps there are some nuances to the issue that I have not considered.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:38 am 
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Let it go.
Someone had other plans.
They made a socially acceptable excuse.

Are you related to Judge Dredd? :oops:
I better go practice being less judgemental . . . :meditate:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:57 am 
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Hahaha, okay.

Maybe I was just a bit overly shocked at first.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Yes forgive. :anjali: Otherways it is our own being what suffers.

You can say: well, you stinky one! No, not good, not good at all.
First patience, people often don't do so to harm. Maybe you can nonjudgementally talk as friends about? Later? Some humour?

Habits often used ...( I have no time...) but these habits can once burn our a..........therefore caring talk.

:namaste: :group: Bodhichitta.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Thank you muni.

Yes, I have thoroughly forgiven him. Now I am in the process of forgetting about it completely. :toilet:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:24 pm 
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I don't like playing games or encouraging others to lie to me (or anyone else) - so if it were me, I'd have told them I knew and to just be honest with me next time.

I don't see there's anything compassionate about ignoring that kind of behaviour, if anything it's condoning it.

In the same way, there's also no need to be angry or make a big deal out of it like it needs forgiving. Perhaps they were worried you'd be mad or something, who knows, but this way they'll know you're cool with just being told the truth.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:07 pm 
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What i would do, would depend totally on the situation, the person and my relation to this person.
If the person is not near to me, it is better to let it go. How he/she lies is her own affair and i'm not the big teacher.
But the closer the persons relationship is to me, the more i am forced to mention the problem. Otherwise, for example if my child or my husband lies to me, and i never say anything although i don't agree with this behavior - it would be like if I am telling a lie too.
To pretend i don't know about it COULD BE like a lie too, but must not. Depends on how i feel about it and how is the relationship.
I think in a case like yours, Ben Yuan, i wouldn't have said anything, because you were very upset and the friend seems to be not very close. We call it "To shot with cannons on sparrows" - means to react too hard on a small thing.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:03 am 
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I would confront him, why I not get with him to the beach.

I think there no serius harm to let this matter closed, and have fun to tease him abit.

Whatever Friends ship sometimes to understand other and what they want, did you not bit monopoly or to dominate him if just must always go everywhere withyou.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:46 pm 
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Haha, facebook. At least it makes it harder for bad liars.

I would say to get better friends. But there is no better out there really. Everyone has to be a conman, liar and destroyer in a society based on selfish hedonism and the liquidation of nature into value added products exchanged for money. I hardly met any people worth meeting in my whole life. However it is easy to meet drug addicts, tv addicts, money making addicts, shopping addicts(money spending addicts). It is disgusting out there, I feel like I need to take a bathe of my soul everytime I meet a certain number of new people.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:09 am 
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Thrasymachus, I understand where you're coming from. I sometimes look at people and see the sadness or pride etched on peoples faces, I'm filled with tenderness for them and the whole human condition. This all stems from the strong sense of separation of me and you, us and them. Get my drift?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:33 am 
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Quote:
I feel like I need to take a bathe of my soul everytime I meet a certain number of new people.

I often feel the same way.
Quote:
"To shot with cannons on sparrows"

Ayu, I think you are quite correct here. I take things far too seriously sometimes.

Perhaps the issue is, sometimes we let the poison enter the vessel, and sometimes we do not. We can never live a carefree life if we choose not to.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:44 am 
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Quote:
We can never live a carefree life if we choose not to.

:jumping: Wonderful!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:05 pm 
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I work with a large group of friends and colleagues. I have an issue with lies. Not only because lying is wrong but also because it assumes that the person who is being misled, is stupid, and will not discover the untruth. And also that they are unable to deal in a mature manner, with the truth. So I try to make it clear to those with whom I interact, that they can always tell me the truth. I may not like that truth, but I will deal with it. I try to create relationships that make lying unnecessary. When I do find out I have been lied to, I try, in as diplomatic a way as possible, to let that individual know that I am aware of what occurred and that it is not necessary. That I am not offended and am not upset, but that I prefer to be dealt with in an honest and open manner in order that our relationship work as well as possible. I do not see where forgiveness is needed or wanted. Forgiveness implies that the liar harmed me and that is not the case.

Each of us must decide how to live our lives but we can also try to make our relationships as above board as possible, to avoid the whole issue of lying. I think most people lie to avoid anger or punishment or embarrassment and if they can be made to understand that none of these things will happen, then there is no need to lie. It is really all about expectations. I expect nothing from others and therefor am never disappointed. I can only control my own actions and even that can be challenging. How can I ever expect to control the actions of others and should I? If I have made plans and someone simply chooses not to show up, then that is their choice. I try not to rely on the actions of others.

Of course, there are times, such as when a volunteer does not show up and I have to step in to do their work, when it is inconvenient. But I choose to do what I do. Nobody makes me step up and therefor, what right do I have to be upset with the person who chose not to?

corrine :namaste:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:06 am 
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I dunno - I think your friend bypassed an opportunity to tell the truth. What does it feel like to not tell the truth? I does not let the mind rest easy like-truth telling does. It becomes like this itch that you can't scratch. I vote for having compassion on someone in such a state. But I also believe that anything you say about someone you should be willing to say it also to them. Well, that brings us to the point of discussing this HERE. If you and your friend were accustomed to speaking truth to one another, you would not have brought this conversation here. I'm not sure at what point you want to jump in and start doing it. :buddha1:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Yes, forgiving - of course.
Forgetting about it - no way.

You have the responsibility to share your time, emotions and friendship with persons who behave in virtuous ways, and that does not work if you just "forget" about other persons bad habits. So, if things like that happen repeatedly, of course give him the chance to change it by sooner or later confronting him with the fact that such a kind of behaviour is not okay, but ... not to care about it and blindly forgiving things can not be "the way" to handle things like these.
If you'd confront him and he wouldn't care about such hints, it might on the one hand mean that he would be a bad person (generally speaking), and on the other hand that he would be a bad friend (more related to your personal life, but also as a general information towards him), and in that case you should really reflect if someone like this is worth your time and energy. If he would listen and change you would have helped him to improve his habits, and you would both benefit from this ;)

Of course you should not abandon anyone just because s/he did not behave like a perfect human being one single time. But honestly, if someone has a bad character and does not care about that, such a person is not a good company.
To me personally, if I would be misbehaving I would actually prefer to be able to talk about it, for you can not exclude that there was some reason related to YOU that led to his behaviour, and he just didn't dare to tell you about that. So it might be that his lies are, in his opinion, in your interest and a trial not to hurt you.
Anyway, you'll never know such things if you don't dare to talk about it. I guess that's a question on how you want to set your priorities on what is important to you, in your life. To me, truth, if it is truth and not just opinion, is definitely what I am interested in *g*

Best wishes


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:55 am 
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People occasionally lie to me, I don't usually confront them, I just don't take them seriously or give them priority anymore and when they inquire as to the reason I tell them. Sometimes it takes them months before they realize I was aware of their deception; it can turn into quite a show when they find out. :popcorn:

If it is a large business transaction or something important I will put people on the spot and cross question them. They never admit their deception in these cases, but the cross questioning makes it clear to everyone involved.
:coffee:


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