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The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Exploring modern Theravāda interpretations of the Buddha's teaching.
chownah
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby chownah » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:13 am

Sherab,
Thanks so much!!!
chownah

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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby chownah » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:20 am

mikenz66,
I have mosty thought of Nanavira's work as being interesting but not so unusual and it seems from your posting that you are of the same mind. I find that Nanavira's explicitly stating the notion that DO is structural and not temporal to be unusual....have you heard of this from anyone predating Ven. Nanavira?
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby vinasp » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:31 am

Hi everyone,

In the Kosambi Sutta SN 12.68 two monks explain that they
see and know directly each of the twelve links. They can
also see that each link depends on the preceding link.
Does this sutta contradict the "three lifetimes" model?

Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Also, for more on the subject of how views originate,
explained in the context of DO, see the Parileyya
Sutta SN 22.81

Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

The Butamidam Sutta SN 12.31 is also of interest.
Although it is not in the form of the standard exposition
of DO, it may be explaining what DO is actually about.

Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Regards, Vincent.

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SDC
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby SDC » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:04 pm


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Alex123
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby Alex123 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:35 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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SDC
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby SDC » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:46 pm


vinasp
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby vinasp » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:39 pm

Hi everyone,

I first read Clearing the Path about 20 years ago. It was
a very difficult and challenging read. I certainly learned
a lot from the work, and was left with a very positive
impression of it. When this thread started I decided to follow
it closely. One thing that has become clear to me is that I
never did really understand some of what Ven. Nanavira was
saying.
I do not think that I understand what he is saying about
contact, the six bases, name and form, consciousness,
sankhara's or ignorance. I feel that this thread could be
very useful for discussing and clarifying the work.

However, although I do not understand what he is saying
on these topics, I have a strong feeling that he has
misunderstood them.

For example, there are many passages in the Sutta Pitaka
where vinnana needs to be understood as something cognitive.
This is not to say that vinnana is never used to mean basic
awareness, it probably is. The Ven. Nanavira seems to ignore
this other sense of vinnana, and understands it in all cases
as primary awareness.

Regards, Vincent.

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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby Moth » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:16 pm

I just read the Rupa and Nama sections in Notes and Dhamma and am hoping someone can clarify a few points.

1) Would it be correct to say that if something can only be perceived by one sense organ, then it is rupa, otherwise it is not?

2) Is Rupa objective? In that sense can we say that there exists an objective world of Rupa?
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acinteyyo
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:33 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Moth
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby Moth » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:38 am

I'm still confused.

Assume that a strong wind blows through the trees. My friend and I both perceive this via sight, sound, and bodily contact and thus we can differentiate it as being rupa (although what we are actually perceiving is nama). It would be reasonable to say that we are unable to perceive Rupa (or the behavior itself) directly, rather we are limited to its signs (sight, sound, and touch). What I don't understand is how we can jump to the conclusion that, because we cannot perceive it, it must therefore not exist. It would seem that it does indeed exist, for while my subjective experience of the sight, sound, and feeling of that wind event may be limited to my own perception, we cannot deny that a wind has indeed just blown through the trees. Further, since both my friend and myself perceived this behavior, however indirectly, is it not, in some sense, objective?
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kirk5a
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:19 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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retrofuturist
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:24 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

chownah
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby chownah » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:27 am


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acinteyyo
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:46 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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kirk5a
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:47 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby Moth » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:30 pm

May you be happy. May you be a peace. May you be free from suffering.
http://www.everythingspirals.com

pulga
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby pulga » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:49 pm


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SDC
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby SDC » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:28 pm

Depending on how this line of discussion continues, perhaps the last several posts should be transferred to the thread which got deep into this type of discussion. I myself would like to pursue some of the previous posts, but I do not want to take this thread too far off topic. Because although we are still discussing Ñānavīra there is much more to this and it might be better in that thread.

Let's see how this goes.

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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby Brivat » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:29 pm

-
Last edited by Brivat on Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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retrofuturist
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Re: The Work of Venerable Ñānavīra Thera

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:43 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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