Buddhism vs Buddhists

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby nothingelse » Mon May 20, 2013 9:50 pm

i'm a bit conflicted between the Buddhist philosophy and the Buddhism following.

The Buddha was extremely wise man, and he had got some very great points. His teaching about the illusion of the self and ignorant is very appealing to me.

Yet, there is some problem with that. firstable, the way people see the buddha himself and his teaching, as an dogmatic regular religous thing is very annoying for me, for i'm an atheist with some total nhilists views .

Secondable, the world of a buddhist is different from reality itself. i mean, reality is subjective and illusionary but "buddhist" reality is illushion aswell, but some see it as the complete truth. leave aside the karma and the next world thing, i feel sometimes that buddhists forget that humans are just animals, and they see them as cosmic great creature. there are some great things about us. i mean i could be humanist sometimes and i think our brain is world wonder. but i'm doubt our abillity to be 100% pure and 100% desire-free and 100% buddhas.

And even all those great masters, i doubt how much they stay so pure and desireless and brilliant, behind close doors when no body look at them. The Buddha teaching makes me understand alot about the problem with desires and egoism. before i met eastern philosophies i was extremely anxious because of those things. now i'm more flowing and i'm more relaxed. but we cannot be 100% desire-free and 100% selfless. it's barely possible.

And the third problem, it's the extreme avoidness from any kind of harm. as a living creature we naturally harm other living either if we want it or not. it's more important being without evil intentions, and that what all karma is about by my understandment. yet being paranoid about whether you harm something or not is just a recipe for anxious and problems.
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Re: Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon May 20, 2013 9:58 pm

nothingelse wrote:i'm a bit conflicted between the Buddhist philosophy and the Buddhism following.

The Buddha was extremely wise man, and he had got some very great points. His teaching about the illusion of the self and ignorant is very appealing to me.

Yet, there is some problem with that. firstable, the way people see the buddha himself and his teaching, as an dogmatic regular religous thing is very annoying for me, for i'm an atheist with some total nhilists views .


Well, first thing you can do is qualify this, what exactly is your experience with this "dogmatic religious" Buddhism, and if you have no real experience of it, from where do you draw your conclusions?

As to the rest, no offense but it doesn't sound like you know, or have studied a whole lot about Buddhism, I get the impression of very second-hand knowledge. As to ahimsa and the precepts, there are really simple answer to these things, start out with the Dhammapada for something that is relatively easy reading.

The best way to learn about it is go hang out with some Buddhists and see if they really do conform to your preconceived notions of them (certainly possible), or if maybe there is more there than you think.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Mon May 20, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby nothingelse » Mon May 20, 2013 10:05 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
nothingelse wrote:i'm a bit conflicted between the Buddhist philosophy and the Buddhism following.

The Buddha was extremely wise man, and he had got some very great points. His teaching about the illusion of the self and ignorant is very appealing to me.

Yet, there is some problem with that. firstable, the way people see the buddha himself and his teaching, as an dogmatic regular religous thing is very annoying for me, for i'm an atheist with some total nhilists views .


Well, first thing you can do is qualify this, what exactly is your experience with this "dogmatic religious" Buddhism, and if you have no real experience of it, from hwre do you draw your conclusions?

i agree i'm lacking of exprience. There is no authentic buddhist community where i live. this is just my impression, it's could be probably wrong and that's why i'm posting it.
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Re: Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon May 20, 2013 10:06 pm

nothingelse wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
nothingelse wrote:i'm a bit conflicted between the Buddhist philosophy and the Buddhism following.

The Buddha was extremely wise man, and he had got some very great points. His teaching about the illusion of the self and ignorant is very appealing to me.

Yet, there is some problem with that. firstable, the way people see the buddha himself and his teaching, as an dogmatic regular religous thing is very annoying for me, for i'm an atheist with some total nhilists views .


Well, first thing you can do is qualify this, what exactly is your experience with this "dogmatic religious" Buddhism, and if you have no real experience of it, from hwre do you draw your conclusions?

i agree i'm lacking of exprience. There is no authentic buddhist community where i live. this is just my impression, it's could be probably wrong and that's why i'm posting it.



Impression from what? TV? Movies? If you've not spent time with Buddhists or learned/read any teachings, what gives you your impression of it?

Not being facetious, it's a serious question.

Your options are to read more, go meet some Buddhists etc...

I recommend starting with The Heart Of The Buddhas Teachings by Thich Nhat Hanh, and nearly anything but the HH the Dalai Lama - I really like A Profound Mind.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby nothingelse » Mon May 20, 2013 10:17 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Impression from what? TV? Movies? If you've not spent time with Buddhists or learned/read any teachings, what gives you your impression of it?

Not being facetious, it's a serious question.


i have read some buddhist various teachings and i listened to lectures. it is true that buddhism got no strict rules. it is true it noway near to the strictness of western religons as christianity and judaism. yet, it had a feeling like when you are following Buddhism, giving you less free of act and free of own decision. I could be mixing with monks lifestyle and those who don't. but then again, religion who suggest you to be monk, is a bit problematic for me. i have learned more seriously taoist philosophy than buddhist, i admit it.
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Re: Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon May 20, 2013 10:24 pm

nothingelse wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Impression from what? TV? Movies? If you've not spent time with Buddhists or learned/read any teachings, what gives you your impression of it?

Not being facetious, it's a serious question.


i have read some buddhist various teachings and i listened to lectures. it is true that buddhism got no strict rules. it is true it noway near to the strictness of western religons as christianity and judaism. yet, it had a feeling like when you are following Buddhism, giving you less free of act and free of own decision. I could be mixing with monks lifestyle and those who don't. but then again, religion who suggest you to be monk, is a bit problematic for me. i have learned more seriously taoist philosophy than buddhist, i admit it.



Hmm, maybe I understand a little better what you are getting at.

There are lots of forms of Buddhism suitable to householders, can you point to a particular teaching or teacher that you feel is restrictive? It's true that like any religion it has it's fundamentalists, and suffers from the same failings that any human endeavor is bound too, but that is sort of the point. There really are authentic teachers and practitioners who aspire to live the teachings though, and who manage to not be obnoxious, stuffy, doctrinaire or unpleasant while doing so. This is why I recommend seeking out actual people, when you meet people who really do walk the walk to some degree (and they are out there), it answers some of your questions.

Everyone is always free to their own decisions and beliefs, and always have been. Uur decisions and beliefs can be a kind of prison themselves though, if that doesn't strike a chord, then maybe Buddhism is not the thing for you, or maybe (and this seems more likely to me) you haven't found the right teacher or practice.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby nothingelse » Mon May 20, 2013 10:34 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Hmm, maybe I understand a little better what you are getting at.

There are lots of forms of Buddhism suitable to householders, can you point to a particular teaching or teacher that you feel is restrictive? It's true that like any religion it has it's fundamentalists, and suffers from the same failings that any human endeavor is bound too, but that is sort of the point. There really are authentic teachers and practitioners who aspire to live the teachings though, and who manage to not be obnoxious, stuffy, doctrinaire or unpleasant while doing so. This is why I recommend seeking out actual people, when you meet people who really do walk the walk to some degree (and they are out there), it answers some of your questions.

Everyone is always free to their own decisions and beliefs, and always have been. Uur decisions and beliefs can be a kind of prison themselves though, if that doesn't strike a chord, then maybe Buddhism is not the thing for you, or maybe (and this seems more likely to me) you haven't found the right teacher or practice.

Okay, thank you. :namaste:
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Re: Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue May 21, 2013 8:44 am

nothingelse wrote:Yet, there is some problem with that. firstable, the way people see the buddha himself and his teaching, as an dogmatic regular religous thing is very annoying for me, for i'm an atheist with some total nhilists views .
Views are always a hindrance to understanding, they make you see everything through coloured glasses, if you relax your view then maybe, maybe, you will see things for what they are instead of what you think they are.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism vs Buddhists

Postby lobster » Wed May 22, 2013 5:25 pm

nothingelse wrote:i'm a bit conflicted


Indeed.

The solution is to follow the path of a wise man.
Buddha for example.

Any chance of that? :namaste:
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