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Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
dhamma follower
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby dhamma follower » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:17 pm


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Zom
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Zom » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:05 pm

:quote:

"Now if internally the eye is intact but externally forms do not come into range, nor is there a corresponding engagement, then there is no appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness. If internally the eye is intact and externally forms come into range, but there is no corresponding engagement, then there is no appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness. But when internally the eye is intact and externally forms come into range, and there is a corresponding engagement, then there is the appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness.

"Now if internally the ear is intact...

"Now if internally the nose is intact...

"Now if internally the tongue is intact...

"Now if internally the body is intact...

"Now if internally the intellect is intact but externally ideas do not come into range, nor is there a corresponding engagement, then there is no appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness. If internally the intellect is intact and externally ideas come into range, but there is no corresponding engagement, then there is no appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness. But when internally the intellect is intact and externally ideas come into range, and there is a corresponding engagement, then there is the appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

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Alex123
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:15 pm

Zom,

So how can a person who is asleep and inattentive ever be awaken in the middle of the night by soft voice of someone else, and yet doesn't hear non-informative natural sound such as ticking of the clock? There has to be some sort of basic process happening that can discriminate and will based on external input.

When on is inattentive, one probably still hears (and has rudimentary processing "to wake up or keep sleeping") but just does not engage with it for long enough period of time.


"Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises consciousness at the ear."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Does one's ear cease when on is asleep? Is there sound when one is asleep?
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:32 pm

Alex I hate to ask, or even seem to rain on your parade, but....

while the topic may be interesting, what purpose does it serve you?
Have you attained or experienced 8th jhaha, nirodhasampatti....?

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_ ... apatti.htm

How useful is this, and what need does it fulfil to know these things now?
Can anyone here truthfully answer your questions to complete satisfaction?

I know, in my profound ignorance that i have tried - and failed.
Others, far more learned than i have also tried....
why is this of use to you now?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:37 pm

Last edited by Alex123 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Viscid » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:43 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Alex123
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:46 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:52 pm

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Alex123
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:25 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:30 pm

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:04 am

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:51 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Sam Vara
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Sam Vara » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:27 am

Hi Alex,


Do the findings of the Libet experiments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet

have any bearing on this? They seem to suggest that intention is very different from what we normally consider it to be, and that there can indeed be unconscious intentions.

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Alex123
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:23 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:44 am

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

chownah
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby chownah » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:15 pm

The topic is hearing while sleeping.....seems very similar to hearing while being awake.....it is very common for someone to not be aware of a clock ticking but to respond to their name being spoken. Why should it be any different while sleeping? If we responded to every stimulus then life would be chaotic with alot of wasted energy....think about responding every time the clock ticked!!! From a cognitive psychological stand point humans have selective attention....they can reduce sensitivity to unimportant stimulus and heighten stimulus for important stuff. I guess from a Buddhist point of view when a clock ticks there is an ear and a sound but no consciousness so the ticking of the clock is not part of our experience. I suppose it could be that both the ticking clock and the speaking of the name could be attended to by consciousness and then some decision is made to either act or not act on it but think what this means if extended to all stimulus.....overload.....think about vision....we do not respond to all of the stimulus that strikes the eye but the eye tends to track important aspects of the visual field....I think it is pretty clear that this is not done by a conscious decision process.....but maybe I'm wrong and there is some decision made but I think it is more like just an automatic onward evolving of conditions with probably an overlay of intention like when we focus in on the beautiful face instead of the mustard stain on the table cloth.....
chownah
P.S. Also, there seems to be a fairly strong undercurrent that there is some self who is either awake or asleep and that if we don't remember what that self is doing while sleeping then it poses a quandry for us when we are awake......this is a doctrine of self and I guess should be avoided......
chownah

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:41 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:10 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:24 pm

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alexei » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:10 pm

Fede, do you play music youself?
I do. Often my fingers play by itself, not every movement is "consciously-considered process". Yes, I decide "to play a specific piece of music", but don't calculate every motion, it's two different things.

Often pupils make the same mistake over and over again just because they learned in wrong way. Is it consciously-considered movement?

Like when you decide to go and your legs just move (unless you pay attention to it), you can even come to wrong place.
Or (more colourful example) when you have some really passionate moments and your movements are not deliberate. The same with extremely angry moments.


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