All good posts!!!
My 2 cents is that it is very good to intellectually understand the traditional framework of Dzogchen, at whatever stage you are at, because then, when you have experiences that go beyond words, you will have a workable context, and framework, to intellectually understand them through. This is why it is helpful to have many words written about Dzogchen, though the words are NOT the same as direct experience.
Also, reading about Dzogchen may make someone curious enough to go and take direct introduction from a Dzogchen Master, and enter the path.
All issues contained in the words of philosophical Dzogchen, are totally resolved by a moment’s contemplation.
This is the one point that answers all: in awareness, all philosophical / intellectual matters are resolved! It is like trying to write on water or air: a different dimension, where words have no place to stick to.
So --- if more intellectual understanding is sought, try this modal on for size.
The Tibetans use the analogy of the thief in an empty house to explain how the display, or show (reflections), of karmic traces of attachment and aversion no longer function (are fruitless) when they appear, when informed by Rigpa. Karmic thoughts, karmic dreams may appear, but they no longer have the power to create a reaction (cause) for further karma: in awareness, they self liberate AS they appear.
To look at how a Dzogchen Master would handle the issues of reflections, causation, and fruit, it is useful to look at the modal of how things appear in awareness, or unawareness, as set out by ChNNR in “Dzogchen the Self-Perfected State.” P53. http://www.amazon.com/Dzogchen-Self-Per ... 1559390573
Less than $7, used.
It is suggested that you read the original to avoid my typing mistakes and to add the footnotes, and italics. Note for Mods – this is an unrestricted text, being quoted under “fair use.”
The long quote is necessary to answer the question in the thread, in a good way.
(The all caps are mine to slow down the reading.)
In the Dzogchen teachings, the primordial state of the base is not defined only as being void, but is explained by having three aspects or characteristics, called the “three primordial wisdoms,” essence, nature and energy.
The essence is the void, the real condition of the individual and of all phenomena. This base is the condition of all individuals, whether they are aware of it or not, whether they are enlightened or in transmigration. It is said to be “pure form the beginning” (ka dag), because, like space, it is free of all impediments, and is the basis of all the manifestations in existence.
The manifestation of the primordial state in all its aspects, its ”clarity,” on the other hand, is called the nature. It is said to be “self perfected” (lhun drup) because it exists spontaneously from the beginning, like the sun which shines in space. Clarity is the pure quality of all thought and of all perceived phenomena, uncontaminated by mental judgment. For example, when we see a flower, we first perceive its image without the mind entering into judgment, even if this phase of perception only lasts for a fraction of a second. Then, in a second phase, mental judgment enters into the situation, and one categorizes the perception, thinking, “That’s a flower, it’s red, it has a specific scent, and so on.” Developing from this, attachment and aversion, acceptance and rejection all arise, with the consequent creation of karma and transmigration. Clarity is the phase in which perception is vivid and present, but the mind has not yet entered into action. It is the spontaneous manifestation of the individual’s state. The same is true for thoughts: if we don’t follow them, and don’t become caught up in mental judgments, they too are part of our natural clarity.
The third of the three primordial wisdoms is energy. It’s characteristic is that it manifests without interruption. The explanation of energy in Dzogchen, is fundamental to understanding the base. All dimensions, whether pure or impure, material or subtle, are manifestations of one aspect or another of energy. TO EXPLAIN HOW BOTH TRANSMIGRATION AND ENLIGHTENMENT ORIGINATE, THREE WAYS IN WHICH ENERGY MANIFESTS ARE DESCRIBED. These three modes of energy are called “tsel” ((rtsal), “rolpa” (rol ba) and “dang” (gdangs), names that cannot be translated into Western languages.
To understand the manifestation of energy as TSEL, we can take the example of what happens when a crystal ball is placed near a window. The crystal is pure and transparent, but when rays of light strike it, they refract into colored lights around all around the room. These lights are not inherent to the crystal itself, but manifest when the appropriate secondary cause is present, in this case, the sun’s rays. The crystal ball symbolizes the primordial state of the individual, which consists of essence, nature, and energy. The colored rays which spread in the room are an example of the natural manifestation of energy, appearing in relation to the individual as an object. In the MOMENT of the manifestation of the energy of the primordial state, if one RECOGNIZES it as a PROJECTION of one’s own ORIGINAL qualities, one REALIZES oneself in the dimension of pure vision. If the opposite happens, and one PERCEIVES the rays and colors as being EXTERNAL to oneself, one MANIFESTS IMPURE VISION. Thus the CAUSE of BOTH visions, Samsara and Nirvana is the SAME: the MANIFESTATION of the LIGHT of the primordial state.
As an example of ROLPA, we should imagine that instead of the colors reflecting externally to the crystal, this time they reflect INSIDE it, not appearing outside the crystal, but within its own surfaces. In the same way, the ENERGY of the primordial state can manifest within its own dimension “SUBJECTIVELY” in relation to the individual. This happens, for example, in the bardo, the intermediate state between death and rebirth, when the hundred peaceful and wrathful deities appear. They ARE NOT EXTERNAL to the individual, but are the MANIFESTATIONS of his or her natural self-perfected qualities. The appearance of these divinities, however, only arises, for those who have, in their own life time, received transmission from a master and applied the method of transformation specific to the peaceful and wrathful divinities. For an ordinary being there arises only the manifestation of “sounds, rays and lights,” which may last only for an instant, and most often are a cause of alarm. For this reason, great importance is given in tantrism to knowledge of the MODE OF ENERGY OF ROLPA, which is the BASIS of ALL of the various methods of transformation.
To understand DANG we should think of the crystal itself, and of its pure and transparent form. If we put a crystal ball at the center of a colored Mandala and walk around it, the crystal will by turns, appear to assume the colors of the cardinal points of the mandala at which we successively arrive, while at the same time remaining, in itself, pure and transparent. This is an EXAMPLE of the INHERENT CONDITION of ENERGY itself as it really is, in any kind of manifestation what-soever. Sometimes instead of dang the term “gyen” (rgyan) is used, meaning “ornament,” because in the state of contemplation, all manifestations of energy are “perceived” as ornaments of the primordial state.
We have to keep in mind that tsel, dang, and rolpa are three aspects of the same thing: how “energy” can appear to our awareness
from within the state of Rigpa.
Please keep in mind that if you are NOT in a state of awareness then all of these descriptions do NOT apply to you and your experience, yet.
Once you have taken the direct introduction, and have some confidence in, and stability in, a direct experience of Rigpa, then come back and re-read Rinpoche’s explanation of tsel, dang and rolpa. Then, from your direct experience, it will make a different kind of sense.
In Dzogchen – The Self-perfected State, ChNNR mentions about the fruit of Dzogchen. P56
In the fruit, or realization, they [the calm state, movement and presence] manifest as Dharmakaya, Sambogakaya, and Nirmanakaya, the three “purified dimensions.” The Dharmakaya corresponds to the condition of the essence, the voidness of all phenomena. However, presence is here totally awakened. The state of the Dharmakaya is beyond form or color, like limitless space. The Sambogakaya is the self-perfected dimension of the manifestation of energy. It corresponds to the natural energy of the base, LINKED to presence. The Nirmanakaya is the dimension of manifestation whether pure or impure, perceived as an object in relation to one’s own state, although there no longer remains any trace of dualism. Presence is totally integrated with the external dimension.
No matter how many analyses one does, one should not forget that one is always referring to one’s own condition, to the aspects of one’s own body voice and mind.
So combining this with all the other posts in this thread, you now have a good idea of reflections, causations, the fruit and the fruitless, within the scope of Dzogchen.
Hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions, everyone. I am very happy to see many experienced, kindly people posting on DW, and other sites, about Dzogchen. This means that the Teachings have found a home in the West!
Lots of good blah blah here. Thank you mod team!!! Thank you David!!!!
Long life to the Dzogchen Masters. May they live long, in good health and with success in all things.