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Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti - Dhamma Wheel

Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Alex123
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Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:43 pm

Hello all,

I was wondering. During sleep the clock is ticking, but as one goes into sleep one does not hear it. But if someone calls your name and asks you to wake you, you can wake up. How can this be? Is there such thing as subconscious processing that goes on even when one sleep?

Lets say that one has made an intent to go into 8th Jhāna for such and such a period of time, then how can one emerge at the right time? One is too absorbed even to think or to count anything, and what kind of perception can there be in nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṃ?

It gets even stranger. How can one be called to emerge from cessation of perception and feelings?
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:47 pm


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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:07 pm

I am reliably informed by members of the Medical profession that the last sense to leave us, as we die, is the sense of hearing; those professionals charged with the care of individuals in intensive care, who are unconscious, comatose or near to death, are actively trained and encouraged to be very mindful of what they say within the vicinity of that said patient....

i once submitted to a led meditation during a crystal healing therapy session; my friend was training to be a crystal therapist, and required a guinea-pig... as I lay on the mat, she surrounded me with various semi-precious stones, some tumbled and polished, some in their natural state, and laid others on specific zones of my supine body....she then began her guided meditation....and shortly afterwards, I fell asleep.
I awoke at the precise moment that she was quietly drawing the guided meditation to a close, bidding me awake and open my eyes.
her tone had not changed - if anything, she had become quieter - and she had not once during the whole time, actually moved, or touched me, to nudge me awake.
As she was suggesting, I found myself instantly awake, refreshed and feeling quite invigorated.

The power of suggestion - even while spoken to someone sleeping - is extremely strong and potent.
your sleeping self is extremely susceptible to audial influence.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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tiltbillings
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:11 pm


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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:15 pm

because there have been stories of people on life-support machines coming round and inspite of having been completely immobile, assisted in their breathing, unconscious and 'blind' (eyes shut) they have reported things they heard said during their coma, within their vicinity.

There are several reports of this in The Tibetan Book of Living & Dying' by Sogyal Rinpoche.
I will try to find other references.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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tiltbillings
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:31 pm


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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:38 pm

I was referring, I guess to his comment regarding the ticking clock, and how when one is asleep, one does not hear it.

That seems to be a false presumption, and would therefore indicate that even if one is not aware of it, one is still listening to audial stimuli....being awoken by being specifically addressed, and being asked to wake up, would seem to illustrate that there is a subconscious processing occurring.....
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Fede
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:45 pm

A reference which might help to substantiate my comment....

http://dying.about.com/od/thedyingprocess/a/process.htm

scroll down to 'Journey's end.....
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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tiltbillings
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:01 pm


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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:11 pm

iIn the context of Buddhists, or as Medical professionals....?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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tiltbillings
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:22 pm


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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:45 pm

I can see myself tying myself in huge knots here, but surely, if we are made aware that we are unaware, we become aware of that?

Is the question being asked, "How can we remain aware, even in a state where unawaredness would seem to be the normal stasis?"

I'm afraid, if this is the case, we would need to ask an advanced 'teacher, versed in the deeper qualities of Meditation....

Or is this not the second Unconjecturable?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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tiltbillings
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:47 pm


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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:21 pm

ok....I'll shut up, shall I...? :embarassed: ;)
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

User avatar
tiltbillings
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:31 pm


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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:50 pm

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

chownah
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby chownah » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:41 am

Is the discussion about why a soft sound does not wake us but a loud sound does?.....and also how can one be called to emerge from cessation of perception and feelings?

My totally uninformed view of cessation of perception and feeling is that it is a fragile state and requires no distractions for it to be maintained especially for a first time cessationer....so any distraction busts the cessation bubble and one emerges.....on the other hand one who is adept might not emerge but instead go in the other direction.....

As to sleeping....it takes a sense door a sense object and a sense consciousness all together for contact....a loud noise evidentally is more effective at getting all three together....it is the same when we are awake in that one might not hear a clock ticking but would hear a loud noise (especially a "noise" with special meaning like the sound of your name or the theme song of you favorite TV show)....in cognitive psychology they say that selective attention....
chownah

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Alex123
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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alex123 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:15 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby ground » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:26 am


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Re: Hearing while sleeping, in 8th jhāna, in nirodhasamapatti

Postby Alexei » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:37 am



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