From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

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dzogchungpa
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From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by dzogchungpa »

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Simon E.
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Simon E. »

_/\_

:anjali:
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Dan Dorje
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Dan Dorje »

Thank you, dzogchungpa.
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by MalaBeads »

Very nice.

Thank you.

:anjali:
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by dzogchungpa »

A cleaned up version is here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/140914458/Cho ... -My-Mother
Just to be clear, I did not upload either of these files, I just noticed they were there.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Jinzang
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Jinzang »

I'm a little surprised that teachings like these are placed openly on the Internet.
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Grigoris
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Grigoris »

Why? Especially if you consider that these are the sorts of teachings ChNN gives over open webcasts.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Dronma
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Dronma »

Thank you, dzogchungpa! :namaste:

PS. This book is out of print now.
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
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dzogchungpa
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by dzogchungpa »

I just noticed that today is mother's day, at least in the U.S., so that's auspicious I think.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Jinzang »

gregkavarnos wrote:Why? Especially if you consider that these are the sorts of teachings ChNN gives over open webcasts.
I'd classifty the text as a pointing out instruction and usually they are not given out freely to everyone. At least ChNN's webcasts are meant for his students, so there is a student-teacher relationship. Anyone can read a text that's uploaded to scribd.
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anjali
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by anjali »

Jinzang wrote:I'd classifty the text as a pointing out instruction and usually they are not given out freely to everyone. At least ChNN's webcasts are meant for his students, so there is a student-teacher relationship. Anyone can read a text that's uploaded to scribd.
Perhaps. After looking it over, there doesn't seem to be anything in it that can't be found in other non-restricted texts. For example, Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche's As It Is, Vols I & II. The only issue is that the work is copyrighted and likely published without permission.
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Jinzang
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Jinzang »

Well, sure. The cat's out of the bag and has been for a while. But the Third Karmapa's pointing out instructions, which I believe were published in Crystal Cave, explicitly say that they should only be shared with worthy students and I think that should apply to pointing out instructions in general. Other people might not agree, but that's what I think.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by dzogchungpa »

Jinzang wrote:Well, sure. The cat's out of the bag and has been for a while. But the Third Karmapa's pointing out instructions, which I believe were published in Crystal Cave, explicitly say that they should only be shared with worthy students and I think that should apply to pointing out instructions in general. Other people might not agree, but that's what I think.
Why do you think that?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Jinzang
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Jinzang »

Because that is what I was told by my teachers and because I can see the fault it giving people a teaching that they are not yet ready for. I think in most cases pointing out instructions will go over the head of people not ready for them, but in some cases it can do some harm.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by dzogchungpa »

Jinzang wrote:Because that is what I was told by my teachers and because I can see the fault it giving people a teaching that they are not yet ready for. I think in most cases pointing out instructions will go over the head of people not ready for them, but in some cases it can do some harm.
What kind of harm? Do you actually know of someone who was harmed in that way?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Grigoris
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by Grigoris »

dzogchungpa wrote:
Jinzang wrote:Because that is what I was told by my teachers and because I can see the fault it giving people a teaching that they are not yet ready for. I think in most cases pointing out instructions will go over the head of people not ready for them, but in some cases it can do some harm.
What kind of harm? Do you actually know of someone who was harmed in that way?
Good question Dzogchungpa! You got me thinking.

You know what? Jinzang is right! I can think of at least 5-6 people here at Dharma Wheel whose spiritual progress has been harmed (and seriously so in some cases) by having access to teachings like these without recourse to qualified teachers.

What kind of harm? An increase in delusive ideation, a grasping to wrong views, increased ego-centred pride, etc...

Jinzang has a very valid point.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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ratna
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by ratna »

I think putting up this file is problematic not primarily because of lost sales to the publisher (it's an out of print book) nor because of its contents (way more esoteric material has been published openly). Rather, I'm afraid downloading a text like this is obtaining the teaching through a contaminated transmission, because it's disseminated without permission. A bit like drinking contaminated water -- perhaps better on balance than remaining thirsty, but pure water would be a lot healthier.

It's a pity that this wonderful book is not available in print or as an e-book.

R
florin
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by florin »

Jinzang wrote:I'm a little surprised that teachings like these are placed openly on the Internet.

if you are familiar with CNNr teaching you would know that he gives pointing out instructions with every webcast.

As to freely distributing copywrited material without the express permission from the publisher that is an entirely different issue altogether.


Whenever CNNr teaches he teaches dzogchen and he introduces dzogchen to everybody regardless of their sangha and teaching affiliation.
gregkavarnos wrote:
What kind of harm? An increase in delusive ideation, a grasping to wrong views, increased ego-centred pride. etc...

Jinzang has a very valid point.

This kind of harm can come from misunderstanding dharma in general.
I can't see this harm only being the province of restricted teachings.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by dzogchungpa »

gregkavarnos wrote:You know what? Jinzang is right! I can think of at least 5-6 people here at Dharma Wheel whose spiritual progress has been harmed (and seriously so in some cases) by having access to teachings like these without recourse to qualified teachers.

What kind of harm? An increase in delusive ideation, a grasping to wrong views, increased ego-centred pride, etc...

Jinzang has a very valid point.
Could be, I was just asking.
ratna wrote:I'm afraid downloading a text like this is obtaining the teaching through a contaminated transmission, because it's disseminated without permission. A bit like drinking contaminated water -- perhaps better on balance than remaining thirsty, but pure water would be a lot healthier.

R
Well, this sounds a bit odd to me. In what way is it unhealthy, spiritually or whatever, to download this text?
alpha wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
What kind of harm? An increase in delusive ideation, a grasping to wrong views, increased ego-centred pride. etc...
This kind of harm can come from misunderstanding dharma in general.
Yes, I think you are right. Certainly from misunderstanding Zen in particular. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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ratna
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Re: From The Depth Of My Heart To My Mother - ChNNR

Post by ratna »

dzogchungpa wrote: Could be, I was just asking.
ratna wrote:I'm afraid downloading a text like this is obtaining the teaching through a contaminated transmission, because it's disseminated without permission. A bit like drinking contaminated water -- perhaps better on balance than remaining thirsty, but pure water would be a lot healthier.

R
Well, this sounds a bit odd to me. In what way is it unhealthy, spiritually or whatever, to download this text?
Just that it's a pirated copy, uploaded without permission, that's all. Should we just ignore this? The way I feel about this is that it's as if some guy received a text from his Lama and was told not to share it with others, and the guy would go out and start making photocopies for his friends, it wouldn't feel right reading this stuff, would it? Perhaps I'm overreacting, I don't know.

I'm not a prude when it comes to downloading a Buddhist Studies dissertation here or a Game of Thrones episode there. But, personally, I feel different about things related to the transmission. I just saw a few days ago that someone had put up all the volumes of Longsal for download, and it made me really sad (this little volume, of course, is not that restricted). Generally, I think people should be a little more careful sharing this kind of material.

R
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