Soto views on rebirth?

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri May 10, 2013 5:47 pm

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

shel
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby shel » Fri May 10, 2013 5:48 pm


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Beatzen
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Beatzen » Fri May 10, 2013 5:53 pm

"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Simon E. » Fri May 10, 2013 5:57 pm

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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Beatzen
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Beatzen » Fri May 10, 2013 6:00 pm

"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri May 10, 2013 6:17 pm

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Beatzen
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Beatzen » Fri May 10, 2013 6:45 pm

in some ways, it is hyperbole on my part. In other ways, it depends on the culture of the particular Soto community you're talking about.

But, my own study of the Soto school's history -after- Dogen tells me that they did begin emphasizing Zazen more and more. But again, that's a broad generalization considering the variety of teaching styles there is within the larger Soto community at this point, from traditional to modern.

For example, a typical service at my own temple includes two half-hour to fourty-five minute periods of seated meditation, broken up by 15-20 minute periods of kinhin (walking meditation). Zazenkai and Sesshin schedules usually include around 4 hour work-practice periods. At least at our affiliated monastery here in Oregon. During Sesshin, they might have two four-hour zazen sessions with dharma lectures dispersed. remember that these people are generally waking up at 5am, meditating and working the monastery grounds until lights out at 10pm.

[edit] in my own understanding, factoring in my own personal take on Zen, like I said I admire the Kagyupas (but particularly the kagyumas, lol) for their emphasis on practice/perfection through action. Of course, their doctrines and philosophy may differ, but i like how Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo put it: the dharma is like a clear elixir. in every culture that it has encountered, that same elixir is placed in a different receptacle. In Nepal/Ladakh/Tibet, it might be contained in a jeweled chalice (or maybe some poor dead monk's skull). In japan, an austere minimalist wooden bowl. But the elixir is the same, no matter what.

My own roshi has said things like "these schools and traditions are all just different varietals of flowers in one garden." also "the more dharma, the more dharma."
"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

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Beatzen
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Beatzen » Fri May 10, 2013 7:06 pm

My understanding of Dogen as a man, was such that he was a very austere sort of man. He was erudite, but somewhat severe.

But to be fair, it is certainly true that some Soto academics distort Dogen's memory as a rigid proponent of seated meditation.

Personally, I think a little intellectual understanding can go a long way. I think at least a very rough understanding of the abhidharma is something that could be more-commonly emphasized in the Soto communities that I've hung out in.
"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri May 10, 2013 7:49 pm

OK, the reason I asked is because I'm having a look at Foulk’s essay
“‘Just Sitting?’ Dogen’s Take on Zazen, Sutra Reading, and other Conventional Buddhist Practices”
which you can read about here:
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Beatzen » Fri May 10, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm reading it, but i'm already saying @ it:

I've never been to a zen sangha that didn't burn incense, do prostrations and chant sutras. So Idk what the author is talking about, cuz that's not my experience.
"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Beatzen » Fri May 10, 2013 8:04 pm

"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

Simon E.
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Simon E. » Fri May 10, 2013 8:10 pm

Good question... :smile:
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri May 10, 2013 8:12 pm

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Beatzen
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Beatzen » Fri May 10, 2013 8:31 pm

"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

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kirtu
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby kirtu » Sat May 11, 2013 12:08 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat May 11, 2013 12:34 am

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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kirtu
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby kirtu » Sat May 11, 2013 3:22 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Beatzen
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Re: Soto views on rebirth?

Postby Beatzen » Sat May 11, 2013 8:01 pm

"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji


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