Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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vinodh
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Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby vinodh » Thu May 09, 2013 9:07 pm

Hi All,

Time for another "futuristic" topic !

Based on the responses to the previous thread "Cryogenic preservation & Rebirth", I thought I would share some of my opinions.

I believe in abiogenesis & evolution. So when the life originally started from basic organic compounds, there was no "sentience". I suppose, they were just self-replicating organic molecules. But somewhere, along the line "sentience" evolved, and beings now could be "reborn" as organisms on Earth.

Along the same line, I would assume if suppose AI/robots develop sentience, the first such sentient "being" would be probably a rebirth of some other being.

V
http://www.virtualvinodh.com

yo dharmaṁ paśyati, sa buddhaṁ paśyati

One who sees the Dharma, sees the Buddha
śālistamba sūtra

na pudgalo na ca skandhā buddho jñānamanāsravam
sadāśāntiṁ vibhāvitvā gacchāmi śaraṇaṁ hyaham

Neither a person nor the aggregates, the Buddha, is knowledge free from [evil] outflows
Clearly perceiving [him] to be eternally serene, I go for refuge [in him]
saddharma-laṅkāvatāra-sūtra

shel
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby shel » Thu May 09, 2013 9:45 pm

In a popular scifi series about sentient machines the artificial humans minds are constantly being 'backed-up' (wirelessly or non-materially :quoteunquote: ) to a storage facility. When the machines are killed they are reborn with new bodies and their stored minds in a rebirth facility. In this scenario Buddhist rebirth would seem to be superfluous. In the very least it complicates matters! :tongue:

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Astus
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Astus » Thu May 09, 2013 10:58 pm

Vinodh,

As I see it, true AI is not possible. Programming is based on mathematical principles, however, intelligence is not bound by such rules of logic.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Wayfarer
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Wayfarer » Thu May 09, 2013 11:16 pm

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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randomseb
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby randomseb » Thu May 09, 2013 11:49 pm

Our "intelligence" is an arising pattern that emerges from the complexity of the interaction of billions of individual lifeforms in our head.. Do you think we can replicate this artificially?

Holybla
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Holybla » Thu May 09, 2013 11:52 pm


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Jesse
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Jesse » Fri May 10, 2013 12:10 am

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

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Wayfarer
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Wayfarer » Fri May 10, 2013 12:23 am

Interesting passage. We will have to 'wait and see' for a looooong time. Maybe some future life. :smile:
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri May 10, 2013 1:01 am

The question you have to ask is at what point these chemicals of the human brain:
Water 77 to 78 %
fats 10 to 12 %
Protein 8%
Carbohydrate 1%
Soluble organic substances 2%
Inorganic salts 1%
--at what point do they begin to, essentially, bear witness to their own activity?
In other words, not only are you thinking, but you know that you are thinking.
So, you can say, "my thoughts" and "my experience".
But Buddhism asks you to look at what that "me" really is all about.

And, as I alluded to in that other thread,
the big mistake being made is approaching this topic
as though there intrinsically a is a "me" that is occurring.
"what happens to my consciousness"
and from that, the position that consciousness is a "thing" as well.

The flaw comes from thinking that this "me" has a brain, has thoughts.
But that is not the case.
It is the other way around.
It is the activity of the brain when combined with basic, fundamental "awareness"
(not to be confused with cognitive awareness)
which provides the physical, material environment by which, the (illusory) experience of "me" occurs.

Otherwise, what you are talking about is essentially a computer that generates its own user,
a chicken that lays the egg from which itself is hatched...
which, of course, makes no sense.
.
.
.
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
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vinodh
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby vinodh » Fri May 10, 2013 1:05 am

http://www.virtualvinodh.com

yo dharmaṁ paśyati, sa buddhaṁ paśyati

One who sees the Dharma, sees the Buddha
śālistamba sūtra

na pudgalo na ca skandhā buddho jñānamanāsravam
sadāśāntiṁ vibhāvitvā gacchāmi śaraṇaṁ hyaham

Neither a person nor the aggregates, the Buddha, is knowledge free from [evil] outflows
Clearly perceiving [him] to be eternally serene, I go for refuge [in him]
saddharma-laṅkāvatāra-sūtra

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Wayfarer
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Wayfarer » Fri May 10, 2013 1:08 am

Interesting point about that passage is that HH does not suggest that 'mind' is something that a computer could generate. He speculates that a computer or artificial system might host a mind at some stage in the future.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

shel
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby shel » Fri May 10, 2013 1:10 am


shel
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby shel » Fri May 10, 2013 1:14 am


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Hickersonia
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Hickersonia » Fri May 10, 2013 1:22 am

Hickersonia


"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of
throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."

Nam mô A di đà Phật!

Holybla
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Holybla » Fri May 10, 2013 2:05 am

Don't the dharma masters say that mind is artifice? We are the artificial intelligences. One day the robots will think, how did we get this way? Why do we think like this? Then billions of years later we will be right back into these same questions, unless like the robot in that Korean flick that attained buddhahood, we just give up sentience and cease...

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Wayfarer
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Wayfarer » Fri May 10, 2013 2:08 am

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Kim O'Hara » Fri May 10, 2013 3:47 am


plwk
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby plwk » Fri May 10, 2013 3:58 am


Simon E.
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby Simon E. » Fri May 10, 2013 7:52 am

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

shel
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Re: Artificial Intelligence & Sentience

Postby shel » Fri May 10, 2013 8:58 am

I for one have been feeling a tad annihilly lately. :pig:


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