Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

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vinodh
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Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby vinodh » Wed May 08, 2013 12:23 am

Hi All,

I was recently reading about people preserving their body at cryogenic temperatures, in the hope that in the future that they can perhaps be re-animated :thinking:

Since, the person is already dead, he/she would have already had rebirth(s).

Assuming, that in the future that it is possible to re-animate the body - I was just wondering "who" the reanimated person will be :shrug:

Any thoughts !

V
http://www.virtualvinodh.com

yo dharmaṁ paśyati, sa buddhaṁ paśyati

One who sees the Dharma, sees the Buddha
śālistamba sūtra

na pudgalo na ca skandhā buddho jñānamanāsravam
sadāśāntiṁ vibhāvitvā gacchāmi śaraṇaṁ hyaham

Neither a person nor the aggregates, the Buddha, is knowledge free from [evil] outflows
Clearly perceiving [him] to be eternally serene, I go for refuge [in him]
saddharma-laṅkāvatāra-sūtra

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Wayfarer
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby Wayfarer » Wed May 08, 2013 1:03 am

I once heard a rumour that Walt Disney did this. I thought it was very sad. It is such a sad misunderstanding of the nature of life and death, to try and cling to the body like that.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

plwk
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby plwk » Wed May 08, 2013 1:30 am

There is a beautiful account of the meeting between the Pure Land Patriarch T'an Luan and the famed translator/monk Bodhiruci. T'an Luan (488-554), seeking immortality, travelled about China obtaining teachings from various noted sages, including the Taoist master T'ao Hung-ching. Eventually (ca. 530) he met with the Indian Buddhist teacher Bodhiruci:

"T'an Luan opened the conversation by saying
'Is there anything in the Teaching of the Buddha which is superior to the methods for obtaining immortality found in this country's scriptures on the immortals?'

Bodhiruci spat on the ground and said, 'What are you saying? There is no comparison! Where on this earth can you find a method for immortality? Suppose that you can obtain youth in your old age, and never die: even having done that, you would still be rolling around in the Triple World!'

So he gave him the Meditation Sutra and said, 'These are the recipes of Amitabha Buddha: if you rely on his practices, you will be liberated from Samsara.'"

I can imagine Bodhiruci commenting...
'What are you saying? There is no comparison! Where on this earth can you find a method for immortality? Suppose that you can obtain youth by being a frozen popsicle, and never die: even having done that, you would still be rolling around in the Triple World!' :tongue:

shel
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby shel » Wed May 08, 2013 2:14 am

If mind and matter were somehow separate the thought of cryogenic suspension wouldn't be to some... uncomfortable? On the other hand, who's to say that the mind wouldn't decide to wait for the thaw. :tongue:
Last edited by shel on Wed May 08, 2013 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pueraeternus
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby pueraeternus » Wed May 08, 2013 2:14 am

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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dharmagoat
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby dharmagoat » Wed May 08, 2013 4:11 am

It comes down to the question of whether death can ever be reversed. If it turns out that it can, then the theory of rebirth will need some tweaking.

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Indrajala
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby Indrajala » Wed May 08, 2013 4:47 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Jesse
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby Jesse » Wed May 08, 2013 7:09 am

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

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dharmagoat
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby dharmagoat » Wed May 08, 2013 8:15 am


Simon E.
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby Simon E. » Wed May 08, 2013 8:28 am

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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dharmagoat
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby dharmagoat » Wed May 08, 2013 9:12 am


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Astus
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby Astus » Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

I'm no expert in medicine or biology, however, as I've heard, frozen dead bodies can never be reanimated because by freezing the cells they are practically destroyed (just as freezing water can break the bottle).
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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vinodh
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby vinodh » Wed May 08, 2013 11:40 am

http://www.virtualvinodh.com

yo dharmaṁ paśyati, sa buddhaṁ paśyati

One who sees the Dharma, sees the Buddha
śālistamba sūtra

na pudgalo na ca skandhā buddho jñānamanāsravam
sadāśāntiṁ vibhāvitvā gacchāmi śaraṇaṁ hyaham

Neither a person nor the aggregates, the Buddha, is knowledge free from [evil] outflows
Clearly perceiving [him] to be eternally serene, I go for refuge [in him]
saddharma-laṅkāvatāra-sūtra

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Indrajala
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby Indrajala » Wed May 08, 2013 1:17 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

shel
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby shel » Wed May 08, 2013 11:39 pm


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Wayfarer
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby Wayfarer » Thu May 09, 2013 1:17 am

But they wouldn't. How could you say they would? A causal factor in the chain of causation, might be an intention - in fact, often is. And an intention is not a physical thing, amy more than a thought. You cannot point to anything anywhere in the objective realm known to sciences and say 'there is an intention'. Intentions are only ever associated with subjects, and the subject is not this or that. Do you think if a body was in suspended animation, and came to again, the subject would be saying 'now, where was I...' :smile:
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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randomseb
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby randomseb » Thu May 09, 2013 1:24 am

If the future and the past all exist as a result of the present, there's no reason why a cryopsycle would acquire a rebirth if it is going to be reanimated at some point, but if it would never get reanimated then it would perhaps acquire a rebirth, see?

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Wayfarer
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby Wayfarer » Thu May 09, 2013 1:26 am

It is never the body that is reborn in the first place. The cycle of birth and death is driven by avidya which is the first factor of the chain of origination.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

shel
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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby shel » Thu May 09, 2013 1:50 am


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Re: Cryonic Preservation and Rebirth

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu May 09, 2013 2:04 am

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.


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