Adamantine wrote:1.To disparage the Master
2.To transgress the three levels of vows
3.To be hostile to vajra brothers and sisters
4.To foresake loving kindness on behalf of sentient beings
5.To abandon the enlightened mind
6.To disparage one's own doctrine and those related to it
7.To divulge secrets to the immature
8.To abuse the five components which are primordially pure
9.To develop doubt in the inner doctrines of the tantras
10.To have compassion for evil beings especially those who harm the doctrine
11.To apply conceptualisation to wordless natures
12.To belittle those who have faith
13.To violate the commitments that have been undertaken
14.To disparage women, the source of discriminative wisdom
Adamantine wrote:9.To develop doubt in the inner doctrines of the tantras ***
Adamantine wrote:Of course, your ego will naturally find kinship with opinions that mirror the choices it's already made. But since you asked publicly, and I heard your question, then it is my responsibility as a Vajra brother to tell you the straight truth. Don't kid yourself that following your doubts about Vajrayana and your teacher, and making big decisions to abandon the practices he instructed you in without even the courtesy of consulting with him about it: --that this will be something you can do and still maintain your samaya. The only way it could work is if you asked your Lama with deep respect and he gave you his blessing to practice Zen for a while. Otherwise, I don't see how you can avoid a downfall. Once you've taken tantric vows you're embedded in an intimate web of interdependance with your Lama and the mandala of his retinue and the other disciples who have taken initiation with you, and with your Lama in general. Once you begin to break vows it will have an affect on all of them. This is a basic truth, not fear mongering. It is a basic of understanding of karma, cause and result.
yegyal wrote:So, again, this isn't really that different from what you find in most forms of Buddhism. Besides, it doesn't sound like Luke started this thread because he was scared of leaving Vajrayana, but more like he had grown bored of Vajrayana and needed to get that off his chest. And if I'm wrong about that, Luke, I apologize for my oversimplification.
gregkavarnos wrote: view to cling to
The 14 Vajrayana Precepts
We are considered to have broken our samaya or tantric commitments if we:
1. Show disrespect for the Guru in body, speech, or mind
2. Having no regard for the rules laid down by the Buddha
3. Condemn and/or create problems with one's Vajra brothers and sisters
4. Abandon love for sentient beings
5. Relinquish Bodhicitta due to difficulties
6. Slander the scriptures of Mahayana and Vajrayana
7. Transmit tantric teaching without having the proper empowerment and credentials
8. Abuse and/or foster attachment to the five skandhas, ie. world of appearances
9. Harbor skepticism or doubt about the doctrine of Emptiness
10. Maintain ties to beings with cruel intentions towards Buddha and his teachings
11. Indulge in accomplishments forgetting the purpose of Vajrayana practice
12. Fail to transmit authentic Dharma
13. Fail in performance of tantric ritual practices
14. Despise/or condemn Women
Luke wrote: fears are just mental creations.
gregkavarnos wrote:Let's see if I am understanding the conversation at this point: are people saying that Vajrayana is not the idea/teachings of the Buddha?
Do you think that every single word in the Sutta and Sutras were spoken by the historical Buddha?Luke wrote:Hmm, that's an interesting question, and one which I'm really not qualified to answer.
Is it your belief that every single word in the Tantras was written by the historical Buddha?
I also initially found it "disconcerting" so I asked one of my lama to give me a sadhana for the Budddha Shakyamuni. He obliged by giving me the lung and tri for a practice written by the Sharmapa Mipham Chokyi Lodro (which he wrote when he was just 15 years old) and now I have a specific practice for Buddha Shakyamuni which I do every New Moon.I guess when I attended Vajrayana lectures, I usually felt quite disconnected from the historical Buddha because, in my view, the issues being discussed were almost always about other masters or deities. Perhaps this disconnect is another thing which I found depressing.
gregkavarnos wrote:I also initially found it "disconcerting" so I asked one of my lama to give me a sadhana for the Budddha Shakyamuni. He obliged by giving me the lung and tri for a practice written by the Sharmapa Mipham Chokyi Lodro (which he wrote when he was just 15 years old) and now I have a specific practice for Buddha Shakyamuni which I do every New Moon.