There is a disturbance in the force.

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Re: There is a disturbance in the force.

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:44 pm

Mindstream considered in that fashion is a myth.

Mindstream may also reference the ability of a awareness when presented with object to become aware of object. Due to the nature of our (sentient beings) consciousness we have habitual aspect and retention. Suchly due to such fact a internal object may become a object of which awareness becomes aware and thusly elicited.

So strictly speaking yes that is correct. Functionally speaking awareness presents always in our consideration as a mindstream and continuation. When presented in result as sentient being it presents always in reference to a other moment of consciousness so thusly it is perceived always as a continum.

STrictly speaking it is not. NO object...no aware response. But to make the former statement is like saying karma is all intended....a bit misleading.

To elaborate a bit....I will not rebirth. When a circumstance exists which necessitates a aware response that approximates a similiarity to what I have previously considered to be my consciousness to exist...it will exist. It has not existed prior to that circumstance. But when it is then elicited by circumstance it comes to whit with retentive aspect and habitual formation which present the appearence of a continum. So for that consciousness a continum appears present..

It is a ignorant aspect of awareness displayed but we cannot deny its existance in a ignorant aspect of awareness so elicited.

I hope that makes sense to you but I see no logical fault in it. None can be found to my study and consideration. I can elaborate.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: There is a disturbance in the force.

Postby termite » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:32 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:So strictly speaking yes that is correct. Functionally speaking awareness presents always in our consideration as a mindstream and continuation. When presented in result as sentient being it presents always in reference to a other moment of consciousness so thusly it is perceived always as a continum.

STrictly speaking it is not. NO object...no aware response. But to make the former statement is like saying karma is all intended....a bit misleading.


Yes. Seen from the position of a seeming ongoing viewpoint, the viewpoint is assumed to be ongoing. What doesn't occur to one while doing such viewing is that the moment "just past" is really just a view of present memory. Present mind is laid down as short term memory, which then becomes the object of the next thought-moment. Memory appears continuous because discontinuities are not committed to memory.

Breaks in the conscious "stream" are invisible so long as the "stream" is free to process as usual, with the usual inattention to the process itself. But when the activity of present consciousness is closely examined, the rising and falling away can be seen.

Of course, this is completely separate from the whole pancake issue, and drifting away from the point of this topic, which is the interconnection between mind and world, and between thought and result.

Karma, in my opinion, is instantaneous. It's created when we act (or speak, or write), and it's intentional (meaning "volitional" or "willed".) The result may come later, just as a falling object takes time to reach the ground. But "later" does not mean "in some other time." It's always "now," so the result, in terms of inheriting the results of our actions, is now.

The world, as far as I can understand it, is created anew in each moment of consciousness, and there are billions of moments of consciousness occurring every second, everywhere in the universe. "Sentient beings are numberless. I vow to save them.": This is the first of the four Bodhisattva Vows that are posted on the wall above my door. It's a recognition that "I" and "numberless sentient beings" are of exactly the same nature, and are not able to be separated in any way. In other words, I can't really "save myself" without "saving the world," simply because I can't get out of the world (or get the world out of me.)
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