Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Luke » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:36 pm

Did the Caodong Chan lineage continue on in China after Rujing (Dogen's main teacher)?

All the Caodong lineage trees I find online list Rujing and Dogen and then stop.

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Astus » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:50 pm

The Caodong lineage in China survived via the Shaolin monastery, where established its lineage and it was the source of the 17th century revival of the Caodong line. Even today the Shaolin monastery belongs to the Caodong lineage. Ven. Shengyan also has the Caodong transmission, you can see his lineage chart .
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Luke » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:59 pm


User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Astus » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:34 pm

Maybe, but they have obviously not established any lasting community. In China the Linji school practically took over the Chan scene, just as in Korea and Vietnam. The Japanese who travelled to China and returned, or the Chinese who went to Japan during the 13th century belonged to the Linji school, Dogen seems to be an exception. It should be also noted that belonging to this or that lineage in China had little or no relevance to the everyday monastic life.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



plwk
Posts: 2933
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby plwk » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:07 am

Funny Astus, that DDM chart didn't mentioned amongst the five lay Dharma heirs listed or was his 'inka' unconnected to being a 'Dharma heir'?

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Astus » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:18 am

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Luke » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:46 am


icylake
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:05 pm

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby icylake » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:12 pm

but in China the name of Linji of Caodong has not the distinguishing function at all. Shaolinsi temple's "Daqi(winter retreat)" is totally the same to those of other Linji manasteies, and they mainly use "Nian fo chan(Buddha rememberence zen)" which is very commen in Chinese, Vietnamese buddhism, not "just sitting" used in Japanese Soto zen. Caodong or Linji , Modern Chinese chan practice is very simmilar to that of Japanese Obaku zen.

User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Luke » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:30 pm


User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Astus » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:42 pm

Two things should be clarified.

1.
In China association with any particular lineage is mostly irrelevant in terms of doctrine and practices. At certain times in Buddhist history such lineages meant association with certain groups of elite monastics, but those times were rather exceptional. Normally life in a monastery goes on just as it did before, following similar rituals and daily routine. Individual monks can specialise in the area of their choice and do the practices they prefer. And when there is an outstanding (usually old and experienced) monk, younger monks go and study from him.

2.
Dogen didn't actually transmit a specific style of Zen to Japan but rather what he saw as the common form of Buddhist practice. It is Zen just before the reforms of Dahui - i.e. kanhua chan, using Zen stories for meditation - spread everywhere. Shikantaza is not an exclusively Caodong/Soto method but ordinary sitting meditation in the Zen way.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Luke » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:10 pm


User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Astus » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:12 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



icylake
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:05 pm

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby icylake » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:14 am

Ah, so all Chan monks receive shikantaza instruction and can practice it whenever they wish?

to the some extent, yes.
in Korea, if an ordinary layman practitoner wanted to start "cham son(zazen)"practice, the first stage would be "breath counting" - the second "just sitting", then go to zen master receive "Hwadu"(the third one is very individual thing).

User avatar
Huifeng
Posts: 1476
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Huifeng » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:37 am

High time to get out of using Japanese versions of Chinese Tang (and Song) dynasty Buddhism to look at the actual facts of modern Chinese Buddhism, and Western notions based on these Japanese narratives. A lot can happen in 1000 years, surprisingly enough.

~~ Huifeng


User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Astus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:14 am

Here are the four major Taiwanese Buddhist organisations' description of their aims and programmes:






Or you may look into the free e-books to see what topics they cover and how they present Buddhism:




An interesting fact is for instance that while Ven. Shengyan is called "Chan master" in English, he is "Dharma teacher" (fashi - common title of all monks) in Chinese. Another thing is that while Ven. Shengyan was known in Taiwan primarily as a scholarly monk, in the West his organisation is mostly about promoting a newer style of Chan.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



icylake
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:05 pm

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby icylake » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:56 pm


User avatar
Huifeng
Posts: 1476
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Huifeng » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:01 am



User avatar
Huifeng
Posts: 1476
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Huifeng » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:02 am



User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Luke » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:08 pm

Last edited by Luke on Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Caodong lineage in China after Rujing?

Postby Luke » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:15 pm



Return to “Zen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests