YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby danieLion » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:05 pm

"3) Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami.
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct."

I can't get a clear idea of what sexual misconduct (kamesu micchacara) actually is.

Particularly, I'd like to know what it means in the Suttas for lay people. For example, is looking at "dirty" pictures and/or masturbating to them kamesu micchacara. Did "dirty" pictures even exist when the precepts were formulated? What if you look at "dirty" pictures with your spouse as foreplay? Is that kamesu micchara?

&

"5) Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami.
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."

If this:

Suramerayamajja: ‘sura = fermented liquors, merya = distilled liquors, majja = intoxicating liquors’
Pamadatthana: ‘anything which destroys mindfulness’

is accurate, I don't see how translators get "drugs" out of the Pali. Drugs as we know them didn't exist when the precepts were formulated. And does pamadatthana stand on its own? That is, if intoxication means or is qualified by anything which destroys sati, why bring a particular intoxicant into it, like ethanol? It seems to leave open the possibility that not all "mind-altering" substances qualify as sati destroyers, just the ones that destroy mindfulness. Ethanol always destroys my mindfulness, but that's just me.

DanieLion :heart:

David2
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby David2 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:41 pm

Misconduct should be seen, in my opinion, in the sense of unskillful behaviour.

Ask yourself: "Is behaviour xy skillful or is it unskillful?"

For example: "Is looking at dirty pictures on purpose skillful or unskillful?"

nameless
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:25 pm

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby nameless » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:51 pm

Just my opinion:

For lay people, the precepts are not 'enforced' by anyone. One takes it voluntarily, for a purpose. You are the one to bear the consequences for keeping or breaking them, so you have to be aware of the causes and effects, and whether or not you want to continue doing these things.

You can always justify doing these things, and might not be 'wrong' in doing so. But I think the precepts also function as a framework. In the end desire and aversion cause suffering, and abstaining from things that you enjoy brings you face to face with the desire/aversion related to those activities, and allows you to understand and manage the suffering.

Upasaka
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:20 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby Upasaka » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:17 pm

The heart of the path is quite easy. There’s no need to explain anything at length. Let go of love and hate and let things be. That’s all that I do in my own practice.

- Ajahn Chah -

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby ground » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:26 pm


User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:57 pm


User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby manas » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:00 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:43 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:08 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:17 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:27 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:34 am


User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby manas » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:35 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:38 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:41 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby ground » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:04 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby ground » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:14 am


Yana
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:45 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby Yana » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:24 am

Life is preparing for Death

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby robertk » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:05 am

Yana is having sex with your husband unskilful behaviour?
is looking at your wifes naked body unskilful?
Is enjoying a beautiful sunset unskilful?
Is liking the taste of some foods unskilful?

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Sex, Drugs & Precepts 3 & 5

Postby robertk » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:10 am

[quote="Yana...didn't you know porn workers have high suicide rates..:[/quote]

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jan01/suicide.aspx

Suicide by profession: lots of confusion, inconclusive data





Police officers end their lives more often than those in other professions, right? Or is it dentists? Or psychologists?

Assertions about which occupational group has the most suicides float around like urban myths.

Various occupational groups have called the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), each to confirm that their occupation has the highest rates of suicide, says Jim Weed, NCHS analyst.

But experts on suicide say that statistics on its relation to occupation are not clear. There is no national data set on occupation and suicide. Local studies indicate elevated rates in different occupations, but the data usually "turn out to be frail," says prominent suicide researcher David Clark, PhD.

And in fact, points out Ronald Maris, PhD, director of the Center for the Study of Suicide and Life-Threatening Behavior at the University of South Carolina, "Occupation is not a major predictor of suicide and it does not explain much about why the person commits suicide."

One of the largest studies in the area was conducted by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) in 1995, which concluded that there is a higher suicide rate in the medical field. But beyond that, NIOSH researchers said, the picture is equivocal: Often the studies are only of one geographic area, sometimes they have methodological problems, and sometimes they contradict each other.

That's in great part because the statistics are surprisingly difficult to gather. Only about half the states put occupation on their death certificates. And even when they do, there are questions as to whether the physician, medical examiner or coroner filling in the certificates always gets the occupation or the cause of death right.

In addition, statistical conclusions are hampered by the fact that when the 30,000 annual U.S. suicides are divided into occupations, the numbers for many job categories are relatively small.

Some larger studies in the last few years provide at least some thought-provoking questions about connections between jobs and suicide. For example, in 1997, NIOSH and other government agencies analyzed 1980-84 death certificates by all occupations and causes of death, and found statistically significant elevated rates of suicide for:

White male physicians.

Black male guards (including supervisors, crossing guards, police, protective service occupations, but not correctional institution occupations).


White female painters, sculptors, craft-artists and artist printmakers.


In another study, a sociology researcher at the University of California, Riverside, Augustine Kposowa, PhD, looked at records over nine years for about half a million people of whom 545 committed suicide. After controlling for such variables as age, income, race, marital status and region of residence, he found that only laborers and the unemployed had significantly higher risks.

On the other hand, he found "dramatic" differences for suicide among the industries where people work. At highest risk were those in mining, business and repair services, wholesale and retail trade and construction.

In the end, say some researchers, occupation may not be much of a factor in suicide. Psychologists have long documented that among the top predictors for suicide are diagnosable mental disorder, co-morbid substance use, loss of social support and availability and access to a firearm.


Return to “Sīla”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine