Trials of Modern Life

A place for discussion of current events. Buddhist news would be particularly appreciated.

Re: Trials of Modern Life

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:52 pm

Will wrote:Though it is ghastly reading, the Grand Jury report posted above makes clear that the cases of 'infanticide' were deliberately induced by Gosnell. He gave the women a drug that forced contractions and when the baby came out, the spine was snipped at the base of the brain. So however the dictionary supports the distinction, in this case, an abortionist at an abortion mill is the only cause for the infanticide. Without the motive to abort and the action to implement the abortion, there would be no murdered infant.
Abortion delivers a dead fetus not a living child. What the "doctor" did was to force labour and then murder the child.
As for 'dressing up' political beliefs with a religious garb -- I supposed it is possible, but not very common. If one is basically a secular, political person, then the 'moral high ground' would be a matter of indifference, even hostility, to a political thinker. Not to mention that these days religion & morality are becoming less & less popular, so why wrap a pro-life secular motive with a position that is religious?
What are you talking about Will? You live in America don't you?
Also, just what would be the secular, non-religious motive for being pro-life?
State sponsored maternity programs to increase the size of the work force is an example that comes to mind.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Trials of Modern Life

Postby corrine » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:52 pm

This situation, in my humble opinion, has nothing whatsoever to do with being pro choice. It was clearly a situation of illegal, heinous acts.

However, I, as an old woman who was young prior to the legalization of abortion, feel strongly that men should not be able to control women's bodies. First males get females pregnant, often against their will, then they, the men, decide what should happen to the women. I particularly remember one situation where a very young friend became pregnant through no fault of her own and then felt forced to seek an illegal abortion because her father had made clear that he would kill her should she find herself pregnant while under his roof. The illegal abortion killed her. At her funeral, her father said that it was god's will, god's way of punishing his daughter.

I have always been personally very conservative in my life practices, however, I believe that it is not up to me to choose another's path. Were I to do that, most things a lot of people find pleasurable, would be illegal, including alcohol, all drugs, meat eating, smoking, etc. But it is not up to me, nor should it be up to me. Yes, abortion is always a tragedy but, to me, torturing animals so that meat eaters can consume them, is also a tragedy. Neither should be up to me. Nor should these things be under the control of others. In the case of a woman's body, by what right should a man, any man, her husband, boyfriend, brother, father etc., be able to tell her what to do. He does not have to live with the consequences - be they physical, financial, emotional or whatever. Not your body. Not your decision.

I am personally against ALL killing, abortions, the death penalty, war for any reason, the raising of animals for slaughter, or simply those deaths that come about because we are not generous enough to provide food for all persons or a safe atmosphere for everyone to live in. But it is not up to me.

As to the media. Everyone thinks, depending on his/her particular view point, that the media is biased against their beliefs.

In a perfect world, we would all love and care for one another. This is not a perfect world. Seemingly everyone is angry with everyone else and believes that everyone else is wrong and therefor should be subject to their wrath. We seem to have entered a time when civil discussion is endangered and kindness and compassion almost non existent. But I can try to be part of the solution by trying to accept the right of others to disagree with me without thinking that they are wrong, and biased and stupid and should just shut up. Peace can only begin with the individual.

corrine :namaste:
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Re: Trials of Modern Life

Postby undefineable » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:22 pm

Because it had all been 'done to death' even by the time I was born, I've never contributed to an abortion debate, but it's interesting to see abortion painted as a "Battle of the Sexes" issue, particularly one in which the "other side" (i.e. men) is portrayed as indifferent with respect to the survival of either the foetus or the mother. I realise everyone here is mindful of the suffering and inconvenience involved (including perhaps that of beings emerging from the bardo), but if there had always been a more balanced relationship between the sexes, then maybe claims like "it's my body" wouldn't need to circulate alongside scientific findings that a foetus shows signs of independent conscious awareness from around mid-term. I understand that the law aims to reflect the most conclusive of these findings, and I feel that one needn't see 'the law' functioning as either a) just 'what men want', or b) 'telling people what to do' - One could see it more like the 'law of karma', i.e. "if I do action X, I'll probably face consequence Y', but I'm guessing that in an anarchist (or anarcho-capitalist) view, the fact that all laws really can be shown to have roots such as a) and b) justifies their eradication :twisted: .

That said, the fact that the natural fulfillment of certain desires usually leads to the growth inside your body of another sentient being of roughly equal faculties to your own -simply on the basis of being a str8 female- is as outrageous a fact of samsara as any other.
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
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Re: Trials of Modern Life

Postby greentara » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:43 pm

This is why none of the dualistic opposites of the world - such as male verses female, political power verses powerlessness, have anything to do with true wisdom.
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Re: Trials of Modern Life

Postby Will » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:18 am

greentara wrote:This is why none of the dualistic opposites of the world - such as male verses female, political power verses powerlessness, have anything to do with true wisdom.


The basis of wisdom is meditation and the basis of meditation & wisdom is sila or ethics. The karmic effect of killing is the worst form of anti-sila. Thus in the case of the duality of pro-sila vs anti-sila, Buddha teaches pro-sila or in the killing context - pro-life.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Trials of Modern Life

Postby greentara » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:44 am

Will, Of course do good unto others but 'once you are quiet, things will begin to happen spontaneously and quite naturally, without any interference on your part'
I see injustice where ever I look! So once you meddle the ego tends to rise and say I'm right and you're in the wrong!
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Re: Trials of Modern Life

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:53 am

You know what the Buddha taught? Mind your own karma, that is what he taught. That is what we should practice. I personally believe that it is completely unecessary to turn this thread into a pro-life vs pro-choice argument. These types of discussions are to be found all over the web and the views (of both sides) involved, lead only to polarisation.

As Buddhists we should practice compassion towards all involved in this ghastly affair and refrain from engaging in judgements.

This thread is now finished.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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