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Publicity - or Privacy? - Dhamma Wheel

Publicity - or Privacy?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Fede
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Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby Fede » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:19 pm

Ben kindly advised me to perhaps post a new topic, as this post was essentially veering - and steering the thread I had originally put it in, off topic. :embarassed:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10610

so here, I pose the question/statement, again:

I don't get it.
There is general public furore about Big Brother (also occasionally known by any individual, in any country, as 'the Government') having too much information, and being manipulative, intrusive and being able to do things with said information.... Many citizens resist, refuse or just plain defy any moves by the authorities to garner information because they feel that anything revealed might be used against them in some way, manner or means....
the adage 'if you're law-abiding then you have nothing to fear' simply doesn't wash with many people, and in spite of being model, upright and law-abiding people, they still regard any accumulation of personal information with hostility. Identity cards in the UK are still viewed by the public as being a complete infringement of personal privacy, and as such, are no nearer to reality than they were when first suggested.

Yet here we all are, either on this forum, or on FB, revealing countless snippets of information about ourselves....which anybody, anywhere, can find, read, digest and record at any time.



Very few people know anything about me.....
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Kim OHara
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:41 pm

Hello Fede :spy:
I understand your concern and share it to an extent.
I don't particularly like the idea of people prying into my life, whatever their intentions and whether they have the legal right to do so or not. On the other hand, I don't want that fear to make a prison for me. My compromise is to limit (as much as I can) what I put out in public - particularly on FB! - to things I don't mind everyone knowing.
I also compartmentalise: I am Kim here and someone else somewhere else, and anyone in a position to put the pieces together without trying must share enough of my interests to be a friend anyway.
I'm sure there's enough stuff online that a determined tech-savvy person could find out more about me than I want them to, but ordinary idle curiosity is not going to be a problem. Then again, the same goes for meatspace - so again, why worry?
Read Grayling's Liberty in the Age of Terror (2009) for a discussion of the correct balance between freedom and security, if you like - I remember agreeing with most of it so it must be good :tongue:

:namaste:
Kim

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mikenz66
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:33 pm

A contrarian view, put to me by one of my colleagues who grew up in a farming community, is that the ability to be relatively anonymous is a relatively recent, big-city, thing, and we're just going back to the normal village mentality...

I see a lot of paranoia out there: parents who drive their kids to school rather than let them ride a bike or walk, people who are worried about someone looking them up on the internet (often forgetting that the information is also in the telephone directory...).

Certainly bad things can happen, but bad things happened in the "old days" as wel...

:anjali:
Mike

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Kim OHara
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:00 pm


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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:03 pm

Heck, I worked for the Department of Defense for a while in my youth and when I was interviewed they knew all about me, and that I protested the building of the big Nuke plant and the few run-ins with the law I had--and they didn't care. They hired me. Might be different now; I don't know. :tongue: I think people fear Big Brother will put them in a dungeon for looking at Internet porn or talking smack about the president, but I don't think it's to that point. Yet.

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:18 am

Good posts above.

I think the internet can be used as a way of connecting more people together across great distances in ways that were not very easily done before and certainly not at light speed, which is pretty much the speed of posts, fb posts, tweets, etc.

The level of privacy is up to each person. I'm not sure why some want to post that they are "going to the grocery store" or what they are buying there. There have been reports of some fb users getting burglarized when someone on their fb list see the posts that they are "out of the house."

But otherwise, basic information about a person, their address, and what properties they own is public information in most States, countries. It can be found on Assessor pages of most counties of each State. There has been at least one person who said they wanted to join here on Dhamma Wheel, but didn't want to provide their email address. I asked why he didn't want to provide his email address at registration, assuring him that members would not see it. He insisted he would get identity theft if someone knew his email address. That is the level of some of the paranoia out there. There are others who rip their name and address off every piece of mail that is delivered to them, even though this information is public and anyone with a computer and internet connection can look up for free.

As Mike mentioned, maybe this internet 'revolution' will get us back to the way it was 'supposed' to be with people knowing each other and not living in fear of each other and by creating a new community, albeit mostly online, but certainly there are groups that start online and then meet, for example, meetup.com, etc.
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Ben
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby Ben » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:27 am

Yes, indeed.
Some years ago I was the privacy officer for a municipality. It was an interesting experience adn one does realize that while there are very valid concerns regarding privacy and identity theft and the aggregation and analysis of cross-matched vast data sets, there is also a great deal of ignorance and hysteria in the community which has been created by sensationalist reports in news wires.
At the moment, I live five days a week amongst a farming community in a fairly remote location. In the past year I have been reliant on neighbours who knew who I was and where I was, particularly at times of flood. And likewise, they have called on me at times of emergency for assistance.
There is a balance between total isolationism and unskilful disclosure. Finding that balance usually comes down to common sense (in my experience).
kind regards,

Ben

EDIT: Having said that, I do know what it is like to be cyber-stalked and stalked in the real world.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

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chownah
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby chownah » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:17 am

Knowledge is power....a gov't that knows everything about its citizens and controls the way its citizens inter-relate pretty much can control its citizens completely. Many/most people view their gov't as being friendly and doing good things or at least benign....and maybe they are correct.
The people in Cambodia thought that their gov't was friendly and doing good things....but then Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge rose to power and slaughtered millions.
The people in Germany thought that their gov't was friendly and doing good things.....but then the man with the little moustache rose to power and slaughtered millions.
The people in XXX thought that their gov't was friendly and doing good things...but then YYY rose to power and ZZZ'ed.

If society creates a system which has the POTENTIAL of allowing total conrol of its citizens then it is just a matter of time until the power mongers of that society take control of that system and unfortunately power mongers often are not friendly and are not busy doing good things.

This is not science fiction....this is not fantasy....those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it....

chownah

danieLion
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:53 am


danieLion
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:11 am


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Ben
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby Ben » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:33 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:30 am

I use FB primarily for my business and to maintain the Uposatha Observance Club which offers support to those of us who might be otherwise observing alone. I agree that it can be used to foster greed, hatred and delusion but so can anything else. It's really all about intention, intention, intention in the end. Mettaya!
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

Uposatha Observance Club:
My Practice Blog:

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:26 pm

Image




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retrofuturist
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:02 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

danieLion
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby danieLion » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:29 pm


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Kim OHara
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:26 am


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Ben
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby Ben » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:04 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:04 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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bodom
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby bodom » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:13 am

I moved halfway across the country, 2000 miles from where I grew up, leaving friends and family behind. Facebook is my means for staying connected with everyone.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

chownah
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Re: Publicity - or Privacy?

Postby chownah » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:33 am

(FBI=Federal Bureau of Investigation: It is the information gathering agency for the US gov't....it operates largely in secret)
With absoutely no paranoia I'm wondering if the FBI has any interest at all in FB. I mean, would the FBI be intersted in who is connected with whom?
With absolutely no paranoia I'm wondering if the FBI monitors any activity on FB. I mean, does the FBI have the ability to monitor activity on FB?
With absolutely no paranoia I'm wondering if the FBI has a budget large enough to be able to commit resources to monitoring FB. I mean, if they do have a budget large enough to be able to commit resources to monitoring FB then just how much can actually be kept secret from them?
Would the FBI do inappropriate things? Think about J. Edgar Hoover and the McCarthy hearings for a starter.....then look at the FBI's involvement in politics.....etc. etc. etc.....the first thing a bad gov't needs in order to control the populace is information.....(FBI=Federal Bureau of Investigation: It is the information gathering agency for the US gov't....it operates largely in secret)

I'm not trying to stir up paranoia here....paranoia is not productive...paranoia is delusion....it is my sincerest hope that people do not become paranoid when reading this post....I do, however, hope that it opens some eyes and people start to see gov't as it really is....

chownah
Do you think that the FBI's internet scanning system will detect that the term "FBI" has been used in this post?.....why not?....Google has detected it already so why not the "FBI"? People are working to perfect face recognition for pictures....do you think that the FBI is interested in that kind of techonology?
chownah


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