Jikan wrote:there has been a debate elsewhere at DW...
...on the merits or demerits of discussing kensho publicly. I would like to know how you have been taught on this matter. Ought kensho to be discussed publicly? If so, in what context, and to what end? If not, why not?
jeeprs wrote:There are people who charge big money for seminars on it, and so on. So it does not hurt to be reticent about the subject. It is a very subtle thing. It is very easily exploited and misunderstood as I'm sure we would all agree.
jeeprs wrote:I brought up the traditional prohibition about talking about meditative attainments in response to a question as to the origin of that idea. Discussing kendo is not exactly the same thing. The other thread was about 'enlightened masters' and it was in the context of that also.
I can quite understand that it is something that is and ought to be discussed in a sangha group or with a teacher.
On the other hand there is a lot of commercialisation of the whole idea of enlightenment nowadays. There are people who charge big money for seminars on it, and so on. So it does not hurt to be reticent about the subject. It is a very subtle thing. It is very easily exploited and misunderstood as I'm sure we would all agree.
oushi wrote:What is there we shouldn't talk about? I can understand that people don't want to talk about their insights because they don't what those to be demystified. Keeping them secret makes them safe? If those are delusions... they yes. Those experiences, whether kenshos or makyos, are all there is to talk about in a spiritual conversation. Still, some weird people make taboo out of it.... Envy rules.
Matylda wrote:The only person to talk about kensho or any other experience one has is only qualified zen teacher.
Yes, keeping it secret saves others from confusion, misinterpretation and illusions.
There is nothing to talk about in public.
For such things some people were dismissed from practicing group in Japan.
Matylda wrote:And for monks in training it would be just beyond any imagination to talk about such things.
I possess the Treasury of the Correct Dharma Eye , the wonderful heart-mind of Nirvana, the formless true form, the subtle Dharma gate, not established by written words, transmitted separately outside the teaching.
Cloudrider wrote:Is this not the same thing as described by the term Kensho? It's wonderful to know what the goal is and I don't think those who have it can be fooled by those who don't but certainly those who don't are fooled by those who do.
Meido wrote:In other words: kensho, though crucial, is by itself really not worth discussing at all.
oushi wrote:Hakuin in his letter had no problem describing his experiences, as ground breaking. Somehow, he felt a great urge to share them. Maybe, just maybe because they were worth it. But I'm not the expert in Hakuin, so maybe you can explain us why hi did that?
...that it's not terribly difficult to recognize one's true nature; however, clarifying, integrating and actualizing that recognition is uncommonly difficult. To do so is the lifelong training after kensho which constitutes the meat of "Zen".
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