Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby T. Chokyi » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:39 pm

T. Chokyi wrote:Retreat from Lima, Peru

Teaching from Dra Thalgyur Tantra

April 19th - 21st, 2013
OPEN WEBCAST - TIMEZONE: GMT -5
(Eastern time is one hour ahead of time in Lima Peru)

Friday 19 April: 4:00pm a 6:00pm

Saturday 20 April: 10:00am a 12:00pm

Sunday 21 April: 10:00am a 12:00pm


In addition:
Peru Sangha is doing a 20 year celebration right now, 1:30 pm Eastern Time 12:30 pm Peru time
(April 21, 3rd day, at end of the Peru retreat)
http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby nocompass » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:45 pm

Hello.. I hope this is the right place to post this (if it isn't, I'm really sorry)...

I'm a TOTAL newcomer to Dharma practice. I've just read books, and so I have the resultant head full of words and concepts, but no understanding.

I just joined the DC (paid my dues 3 days ago) and I followed the webcast from Peru every day. Truly incredible. When I reflect on it, I cannot believe how something so fortunate as this is even possible... especially for a creature such as myself. :emb:

What I am wondering is.. well, today ChNN gave a lot of lung(?) transmissions (the first time I have heard something like this, mind you), and I just have no idea if I really received them. I feel devotion to Rinpoche and since reading certain of his books recently, something strange did seem to awaken in me for truly the first time in the 5 or 6 years that I have been a very lazy "Dzogchen book-reader". It would be a lot to get into, so I won't, but I feel that I have finally found my Teacher.

But I don't know if I really received the Direct Introduction (I'm guessing I haven't, since people say that "you'll know it when you do"). Just feeling that I've finally found the right teacher has been a VERY strange feeling for me, along with other things that have been happening over the past few days which appear to be related to this, so it's hard to sort it all out.

More to the point of my real question though... I watched and listened attentively to the transmissions at the end-- although I did try to write the name of them down when Rinpoche stated what they were, along with shorthand notes of the explanations he gave for them-- so that WAS a self-imposed distraction, however briefly.

But If, to begin with, I don't know how to remain in "connection" with the guru due to not really knowing what that is supposed to "feel" like... how do I know if I really received the transmissions and am therefore permitted to practice them? I don't want to practice something things that I am not authorized to practice and/or create more obstacles for myself than I already have. I did do the Guru Yoga but since I didn't know ahead of time that the Song of the Vajra would be sung (like I said, I'm a totally clueless beginner in the DC), I kinda flubbed the words until I got the .pdf file of it from the webcast files page. I've never chanted anything before so needless to say, I pretty much screwed up (I think) the Guru Yoga too.

Many thanks to anyone who can help set me straight on these things... regardless of my perpetual confusion, I am overjoyed to have found my Teacher.

:namaste:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Jikan » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:08 pm

It was a nice retreat.

If you heard all the words uttered during the "lung," then yes, you did get it. It's that simple.

If you participated in the guru yoga with Rinpoche, then you did your best to show up for "direct transmission." Did you get it or not? No one on the interwebz can answer that for you. You can count yourself among those who has received transmission if you are interested in any of the reserved materials at the Shang Shung bookstore.

I wish you all the best in your practice.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby nocompass » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:14 pm

Thank you for the clarifications, Jikan.

No, I wasn't asking for someone to tell me if I "got it," in terms of whether I finally "saw my own face" so to speak. I know that that is impossible on a web forum.

What I was wondering was whether or not just being present for the teaching and hearing Rinpoche's words in an attentive and committed way, is enough to be able to practice what was given.

You answered my question; thank you for your kindness in responding.

:namaste:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:55 pm

nocompass wrote:But I don't know if I really received the Direct Introduction (I'm guessing I haven't, since people say that "you'll know it when you do"). Just feeling that I've finally found the right teacher has been a VERY strange feeling for me, along with other things that have been happening over the past few days which appear to be related to this, so it's hard to sort it all out.

More to the point of my real question though... I watched and listened attentively to the transmissions at the end-- although I did try to write the name of them down when Rinpoche stated what they were, along with shorthand notes of the explanations he gave for them-- so that WAS a self-imposed distraction, however briefly.


Hello, nocompass, and welcome! :smile:
From what I read you did your best, so do not worry so much. As Rinpoche is saying to all of us, relax and at the same time being aware.
Rinpoche did not transmit Direct Introduction during this last retreat from Peru. When he does, you'll surely recognize it - at least, the external procedure.
As for the lungs of the secondary practices he gave today, it is enough to be present and listen to the sound of his voice.
You can also subscribe to Norbunet, the mailing list of DC, so you'll receive all the news in your email: http://groups.google.com/group/norbunet?hl=en.
Moreover, you can listen again to the teachings since you are a paying member. First of all you have to ask for your personal password from your local Gakyil or Gar.
Then you click on the link of the Replay website, which exists in the main webcast page, and you connect with your personal password.
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby nocompass » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:11 pm

Thank you for the warm welcome, Dronma. :smile:

I really did try my best.. I just wasn't sure whether my best was "good enough" in this case, because I was unsure if "something" in addition to hearing Rinpoche's voice and the words of the lung was needed in order to practice the lungs, especially since I had felt that I "screwed up" the Guru Yoga in the beginning. I'm just aware of how important it is to have transmission to practice these, and as a total newcomer to practice in general, I wanted to verify. And I had heard that ChNN usually gives DI at retreats, so I just assumed that he had given it and that it had flown over my head this time around. For some reason I had the thought in my head that one already needed to have had some experience of "recognition" before one could do the lungs. My mind is more than a bit overwrought after way too much study and no real serious practice.. :emb:

I'll definitely subscribe to Norbunet... that sounds very useful indeed.

:namaste:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Jikan » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:30 pm

nocompass wrote:Thank you for the clarifications, Jikan.

No, I wasn't asking for someone to tell me if I "got it," in terms of whether I finally "saw my own face" so to speak. I know that that is impossible on a web forum.

What I was wondering was whether or not just being present for the teaching and hearing Rinpoche's words in an attentive and committed way, is enough to be able to practice what was given.

You answered my question; thank you for your kindness in responding.

:namaste:


Hi nocompass,

Actually, the idea of saving face hadn't entered my mind. I was responding to this comment of yours with the intention of being helpful to you:
nocompass wrote:t I don't know if I really received the Direct Introduction (I'm guessing I haven't, since people say that "you'll know it when you do").

My apologies for misunderstanding your meaning.

Anyway, yes, you certainly have all you need to practice. Enjoy...
Jikan
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:30 pm

nocompass wrote:Thank you for the warm welcome, Dronma. :smile:

I really did try my best.. I just wasn't sure whether my best was "good enough" in this case, because I was unsure if "something" in addition to hearing Rinpoche's voice and the words of the lung was needed in order to practice the lungs, especially since I had felt that I "screwed up" the Guru Yoga in the beginning. I'm just aware of how important it is to have transmission to practice these, and as a total newcomer to practice in general, I wanted to verify. And I had heard that ChNN usually gives DI at retreats, so I just assumed that he had given it and that it had flown over my head this time around. For some reason I had the thought in my head that one already needed to have had some experience of "recognition" before one could do the lungs. My mind is more than a bit overwrought after way too much study and no real serious practice.. :emb:

I'll definitely subscribe to Norbunet... that sounds very useful indeed.

:namaste:


It is true that Rinpoche is giving DI in most retreats, but not always. When he does, then he explains everything in details before the transmission.
So, do not worry, because when it happens, it is impossible to miss it! :smile:
You can find all the material for studying the main and secondary practices in Shang Shung Institute Web Store: http://www.shangshungstore.org/
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby nocompass » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:42 pm

Nooo Jikan! :)

I didn't say "saving face"... I said, "saw my own face", as in, "recognizing my own nature". I've often come across "to see one's own face" used as a euphamism for recognizing one's own nature, and that was my meaning.

Sorry for the misunderstanding there, because your response really was quite helpful. Also, my wording about Direct Introduction was poor.. my meaning there really was unclear. I can see why you read it that way.

:namaste:
Last edited by nocompass on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby nocompass » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:47 pm

Thanks for that information Dronma. I just have to wait for my membership number to arrive before I can get the texts, though. Hope it doesn't take too long... I Must.. practice patience.. ;)
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Jikan » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:12 pm

nocompass wrote:Nooo Jikan! :)

I didn't say "saving face"... I said, "saw my own face", as in, "recognizing my own nature". I've often come across "to see one's own face" used as a euphamism for recognizing one's own nature, and that was my meaning.

Sorry for the misunderstanding there, because your response really was quite helpful. Also, my wording about Direct Introduction was poor.. my meaning there really was unclear. I can see why you read it that way.

:namaste:


Oh, I'm so sorry! I'm adjusting to a new pair of glasses and getting everything all wrong. Please accept my apologies for misreading you AGAIN.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:36 pm

T. Chokyi wrote:
Pero wrote:
This gave me pause and now I think that when I said that he says you can't get it from a recording he might have been talking about direct introduction only.



T. Chokyi wrote:
How many times have we heard Rinpoche say that he is "giving the lung again" because someone wrote him an email and requested the lung because they missed it when he gave it the first time. Time after time, so many webcasts he has done this. He didn't say "I gave the lung yesterday, and for those that missed, get it from the replay".

:shrug:



Pero wrote:Maybe because not everyone can listen to replays haha. In any case, I'll be proceeding as before but I think when in doubt it's best to just ask Rinpoche.



I'm glad you are proceeding as before... this is a good idea, and of course Rinpoche has the answer, but when you ask the question it is important how you word it. I hope some of my brothers and sisters of The Vajra can benefit from Rinpoche's very clear reply:

4/9/2013 10:39:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time

Dear Rinpoche,

I hope you are in excellent health.
I have a question that I thought I knew the answer to, but now I have a doubt.

When all the practitioners listen to the webcast and you are on live and giving Lung for practices
this is the time we get that lungs, the transmission, this is what I understood, is this correct, or
is it possible to get the lung from the replays?

I am not asking this question for just for myself, there are students of yours I practice with who have been
with you longer than myself that say to me you can get the lung from the replay, I want to know from
you, are they getting it from the replay and I am not getting it or is it your intention that
we are in the same space and time when you are on live and then we are receiving your transmission.

I appreciate your guidance Rinpoche, I want no confusion on any of your teachings.

Thankyou, Blessings for your good health,
T. Chokyi


Answer from Rinpoche:

4/10/2013 10:19:49 A.M.

Dear T. Chokyi,

You can't the lung from replay.

The principle of receiving transmission works because Master and students are on the same moment on the same state.

Ciao ciao!!! NN.


Dear Rinpoche,

Openhearted kindness is the key point to be fostered as a fundamental principle of the Dzogchen Community, if you want the Community to grow and be successful.

Then everything will go well.

The key point of openhearted kindness is providing equal access to your precious Teachings.

Then everything will go well.

Once someone has become a member of the Dzogchen Community, a path to full and equal access to ALL your precious teachings, and practices, can be allowed and easily provided, for both now and in the future.

Whether the "permissions" are obtained by attending a physical wang or lung, web based World-Wide Transmission, a "live lung" web cast, or in a verified dream, doesn't matter. The key point is that every practitioner member be allowed the same easy access to all the Teachings.

This is the key point of open-hearted kindness. Then no one can feel higher or lower than anyone else, and everyone will collaborate to help all members get the benefit of your precious Teachings.

With equal access to the precious Teachings, being allowed, then the clear purpose of any center, or any activity, of the DC, is to provide that access.

Equal access can be in the form of low-cost photo-copy transcripts of Teachings (all of the Teachings), low cost recordings of Teachings (all of the Teachings), and through easy access to experienced practitioners, through email, web-based, and actual traditional courses at the Gars and lings. Equal access can also include an easy, low cost, on-going, access path to the Santi Maha Sangha trainings and teachers, both web and physical course based.

Your amazing Collected Works need to be preserved as the luminous hearts of practitioners, not just as paper and plastic in a library of the wealthy or privileged few.

THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF OPENHEARTED KINDNESS.

Then everything will go well.

With GREAT good wishes for your long life, in good health, and with success in all things.

oldbob

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:37 pm

oldbob wrote:Dear Rinpoche,

Openhearted kindness is the key point to be fostered as a fundamental principle of the Dzogchen Community, if you want the Community to grow and be successful.
.
.
.
THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF OPENHEARTED KINDNESS.

Then everything will go well.


Oldbob, it seems to me that you think you know better than Rinpoche, so you are trying to give him a lesson about "openhearted kindness" now.
But honestly, why don't you write directly to your Guru, and/or SSI which was created by ChNNR himself, instead of giving this public performance here?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Karma Dorje » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:33 pm

Dronma wrote:
oldbob wrote:Dear Rinpoche,

Openhearted kindness is the key point to be fostered as a fundamental principle of the Dzogchen Community, if you want the Community to grow and be successful.
.
.
.
THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF OPENHEARTED KINDNESS.

Then everything will go well.


Oldbob, it seems to me that you think you know better than Rinpoche, so you are trying to give him a lesson about "openhearted kindness" now.
But honestly, why don't you write directly to your Guru, and/or SSI which was created by ChNNR himself, instead of giving this public performance here?


:good:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:27 pm

Dronma wrote:
oldbob wrote:Dear Rinpoche,

Open-hearted kindness is the key point to be fostered as a fundamental principle of the Dzogchen Community, if you want the Community to grow and be successful.
.
.
.
THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF OPEN-HEARTED KINDNESS.

Then everything will go well.


Oldbob, it seems to me that you think you know better than Rinpoche, so you are trying to give him a lesson about "openhearted kindness" now.
But honestly, why don't you write directly to your Guru, and/or SSI which was created by ChNNR himself, instead of giving this public performance here?


Hi Dronma, all and ALL,

I have NEVER thought that I know "better than Rinpoche," or anyone else, for that matter, about open-hearted kindness, or anything, for that matter. I am just one member of the DC voicing a single opinion in a public forum. I have sadly observed the DC membership, and attendance at DC retreats, dropping over the past several years. I would sincerely like to see more open hearted kindness in the social structures and monetization structures of the DC. Then more people can get the benefit of the Teachings. These are very rare and precious Teachings that can lead to enlightenment in one life time.

I have previously written to ChNNR and SSI about these specific issues and now I am posting them here, hopefully to get some more movement in the direction of greater open-hearted kindness, as others share their views with Rinpoche. The less than open-heartedly kindly social structures and monetization structures of the DC are the results of the "working with circumstances" of the influence of those advising ChNNR, NOT some carved in stone, Terma derived, sacred, never to be changed, revelation.

Example: For the wealthy who are meritorious members of the DC, who live within commuting distance of Conway, the upcoming DC retreat there is 0 actual cost for the retreat. For a non-member, coming from Hawaii (worse case distance in the US, who has attended any DC retreat before, the actual cost is $600 plus airfare of around $800, plus bus transportation to the Conway area of $100 r/t, plus motel of $60 per night, for the 7 nights necessary to attend the retreat, so add $400. This makes a total of almost $2000.

The DC retreats have developed a reputation as a "club for the rich."

At the last Tsegyalgar retreat, the attendance dropped to 350 from the previous retreat's 650.

What is wrong with this picture?

Example: For someone wanting to study the SMS, there is the initial cost of the SMS base level book, first level retreat fee (no discounts), the travel, lodging, and book, for the first level Teaching retreat and then the same costs for the next 8 levels. This is a financial show stopper for those who would very sincerely like to study and practice the SMS, AND are willing to do the extensive study and practices required, but just cannot afford the cost. If you don't live near a center, getting to the 2nd level stage of SMS can cost several thousand dollars.

What is wrong with this picture?

Example: For a poor person, who just wants to be a simple "reduced" member, and participate by listening to the webcasts, there is still the prohibitive costs of the hundred euros just to buy the normal practice books and CDs / DVDs, that everyone uses, let alone the CDs and DVDs of the retreats. Sure, some things are posted, for a while, on the webcast site and that helps a lot.

Why not permanently post everything needed for practice?

What is wrong with this picture.

For most people, the social structures and monetization structures of the DC are not workable.

Confronted with this display of less than open hearted kindness, most normal people go elsewhere.

What is wrong with this picture?

Allowing all members to have free and easy access to all the precious Teachings would help many more people than is presently possible, and would overcome the "selling the Dharma" reputation of the DC.

At the end of his last retreat, K. Yeshe has declared that the "Tibetan Teachings of my father" will be done by the SMS structure and that he, K. Yeshe, will be bringing out his own Teachings in his new series of retreats. I wish him all the best.

The key point is that the collected works of ChNNR include much more than the currently released SMS.

There needs to be a Community wide commentary on the evolution of the DC, otherwise we may wind up with another 3 million dollar sink hole like Margarita, another 1 million dollar sink hole like the dance hall in the woods, or anther 1 million dollar sink hole like K. Yeshe's movie. These seemingly endless expenditures of the limited resources of the DC could have built a really fantastic "World" center in Tenerife, with money left over to fund an endowment for permanent upkeep AND free publication of the Teachings.

It is really important that Rinpoche hear from a more balanced perspective than what he has heard from his past advisors. Otherwise, I fear that in a short while, K.Yeshe and Co. will shut down all access to the archives, (except for themselves), and dust off a "New" version of something that ChNNR has taught before, or where is otherwise restrictedly available (Yeshe Lama) covered with 'new age" and "new management" buzz words, and sell this to the "innocents" at a high price. I sincerely hope I am wrong, but sincerely fear I am not.

I am just one voice.

It is REALLY important that the wider DC advise Rinpoche in the evolution of the DC.

Hence my "performance." :smile:

ChNNR is working with circumstances. Please let him know know your thoughts, about the structure of the DC, or all he hears from is the current group of advisors, who have a vested interest in maintaining their power positions in the Community, through restricting access to the Teachings. Equal access to the Teachings is the first step to evolution. Practice makes perfection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH7qq7OjJO8

ob

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:39 pm

oldbob wrote:Hi Dronma, all and ALL,

I have NEVER thought that I know "better than Rinpoche," or anyone else, for that matter, about open-hearted kindness, or anything, for that matter. I am just one member of the DC voicing a single opinion in a public forum. I have sadly observed the DC membership, and attendance at DC retreats, dropping over the past several years. I would sincerely like to see more open hearted kindness in the social structures and monetization structures of the DC. Then more people can get the benefit of the Teachings. These are very rare and precious Teachings that can lead to enlightenment in one life time.

I have previously written to ChNNR and SSI about these specific issues and now I am posting them here, hopefully to get some more movement in the direction of greater open-hearted kindness, as others share their views with Rinpoche. The less than open-heartedly kindly social structures and monetization structures of the DC are the results of the "working with circumstances" of the influence of those advising ChNNR, NOT some carved in stone, Terma derived, sacred, never to be changed, revelation.


Oldbob, I respect your agony about DC future.
But I hope you understand that nothing is going to change by posting your complains and suggestions for the organizational structure of DC in a public forum like Dharma Wheel. Don't you?
You know that there are meetings and procedures inside DC, where every member can participate and make suggestions. However, whether his/her suggestions will be accepted by Rinpoche and the people who are responsible for DC/SSI or not, it is something that nobody can control or demand from anybody, and especially from Rinpoche.

PS. By the way, DC has very logic prices for participation in my place. There is not such idea in people here like "selling the Dharma".
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:24 am

Dronma wrote:
oldbob wrote:Hi Dronma, all and ALL,

I have NEVER thought that I know "better than Rinpoche," or anyone else, for that matter, about open-hearted kindness, or anything, for that matter. I am just one member of the DC voicing a single opinion in a public forum. I have sadly observed the DC membership, and attendance at DC retreats, dropping over the past several years. I would sincerely like to see more open hearted kindness in the social structures and monetization structures of the DC. Then more people can get the benefit of the Teachings. These are very rare and precious Teachings that can lead to enlightenment in one life time.

I have previously written to ChNNR and SSI about these specific issues and now I am posting them here, hopefully to get some more movement in the direction of greater open-hearted kindness, as others share their views with Rinpoche. The less than open-heartedly kindly social structures and monetization structures of the DC are the results of the "working with circumstances" of the influence of those advising ChNNR, NOT some carved in stone, Terma derived, sacred, never to be changed, revelation.


Oldbob, I respect your agony about DC future.
But I hope you understand that nothing is going to change by posting your complains and suggestions for the organizational structure of DC in a public forum like Dharma Wheel. Don't you?
You know that there are meetings and procedures inside DC, where every member can participate and make suggestions. However, whether his/her suggestions will be accepted by Rinpoche and the people who are responsible for DC/SSI or not, it is something that nobody can control or demand from anybody, and especially from Rinpoche.

PS. By the way, DC has very logic prices for participation in my place. There is not such idea in people here like "selling the Dharma".


Dronma,

No agony here. Your word - your construct. Everything is perfect, just as it is, and ---

http://www.amazon.com/Tipping-Point-Lit ... 0316346624

Rinpoche works with circumstances. I believe that If enough people write a clear short note to Rinpoche he will reduce the costs and more people will get the benefit.

No demand here. Your word - your construct. I am just pointing out what I think is going on. One person's opinion.

Very glad to hear that everyone can afford the Teachings / retreats in Greece. I am very happy to hear of logic prices for participation.

We have no logic prices here in the US. :smile:

ob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:03 am

Re Karma Dorje's comments: apples and bananas. We differ in our appraisal of things, though we agree on some facts.

Yes, the webcasts are wonderful and are very helpful to many people, especially the disabled.
It is also wonderful that 2000 + people can access the teachings through the webcasts.

I am thinking of the other folks and how to help them too. There are a lot of other folks.

I sincerely believe that everyone has the Buddha seed in them and that if the precious Teachings of ChNNR can be presented in a more open-hearted, less costly, manner, then many more people will get the benefit of these precious Teachings leading to realization in one life time.

I applaud K Yeshe's successful career in IT and his application of management techniques to the organization of retreats. The retreats are now much better organized than before. Hurrah for K Yeshe's management skills!!!

I have NO aggression towards K Yeshe, passive or otherwise. This is entirely your phrase, and construction, not mine. If even one person is helped by K Yeshe's "new" presentation of Dzogchen, this is wonderful and I sincerely applaud that. How could I not? I am completely sincere when I have said before that everyone should send "hugs" to K Yeshe. He has gone way out on a limb in creating his "New Dzogchen" and I sincerely wish him all the best. If K Yeshe can give transmission, then whatever he teaches will be Dzogchen and he will do fine.

My sincere fear, as pointed to above, is that if his "New Dzogchen" is not financially successful, then K Yeshe might shut down access to the DC archives and use his private access to market "new" versions of what is in the archives. I don't say this to be aggressive towards K Yeshe at all. This is an honest appraisal based on 30+ years of observation. If ChNNR gives his blessing to all of this, then it is K Yeshe's moral and legal right to do whatever he wants to with his father's Teachings, and I completely support that.

If ChNNR chooses to allow equal access to all of his Teachings, this will allow for for the DC to flourish and prosper, regardless of whatever K Yeshe, or SSI, or any "power people," choose to do to limit access to the Teachings. This is why I am calling equal access, the key point of open-hearted kindness.

If enough people write to ChNNR, giving short, polite, and reasoned arguments, I sincerely believe he may, working with circumstances, allow equal access.

:heart:

ob
oldbob
 
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:06 pm

oldbob wrote:At the end of his last retreat, K. Yeshe has declared that the "Tibetan Teachings of my father" will be done by the SMS structure and that he, K. Yeshe, will be bringing out his own Teachings in his new series of retreats.

Wow really?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:50 pm

Pero wrote:
oldbob wrote:At the end of his last retreat, K. Yeshe has declared that the "Tibetan Teachings of my father" will be done by the SMS structure and that he, K. Yeshe, will be bringing out his own Teachings in his new series of retreats.

Wow really?


That's what I got out of it at 5 in the AM, in Margarita, with a little sleep, fuzzy head. :zzz: :rolleye:

It is possible that I misunderstood.

Nice if somebody has a transcript of the Italian, or English, of that section.

Don't panic. Many a slip twixt the cup and the lip. :stirthepot:

If ChNNR grants equal access to the Teachings, with everyone helping everyone else to get the practices and to DO them, then it is a whole new world.

:buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1: :buddha1:

This would be a profound display of open-hearted kindness.

Having everyone filter through SMS is not so bad either.

http://www.dzogchen.it/sites/default/fi ... 2007_0.pdf

:group:

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