Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby zamotcr » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:00 pm

hi,

I was wondering, it is said that Shakyamuni's pure land is this saha world, but we can't see it due to our impurity. And it is said too that Maitreya will own a future Pure Land. It is the same pure land as Shakyamuni or a different one? I ask this since it is the same saha world... What will happen to Shakyamuni Pure Land after Maitreya comes?

:namaste:
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby plwk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:39 am

And it is said too that Maitreya will own a future Pure Land. It is the same pure land as Shakyamuni or a different one?
It's the same one. But of course, it's unreasonable to expect conditions of the Saha World to be the same by then than compared to now on a conventional reality level. There are Sutras which describe what it will possibly look like by then. But at the ultimate level of pure view, there's no difference.
I ask this since it is the same saha world... What will happen to Shakyamuni Pure Land after Maitreya comes?
The only 'happening' are twofold:
One that occur as explained above.
The second one is the change in Dispensation, from Sakyamuni's to Maitreya's. Let me give you another example. There will come one day when Amitabha Buddha will manifest His Mahaparinirvana and so by then as per the Sutra, on the same day as that happens, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva will take over as the Host of Sukhavati when Amitabha's Dispensation is over. And then, when Avalokitesvara's is over, the third Sage of Sukhavati, Mahastamaprapta will take over.... The unique thing about Sukhavati as compared to Saha World is that the Dispensation ends as soon as the Host Buddha manifests Mahaparinirvana and the next one in line takes over as 'new management' as if to maintain the continuity of a Dharma Perfect Age in Sukhavati unlike here where we experience a Dharma Semblance Age and a Dharma Ending Age. This is one of the unique features of Sukhavati, non-retrogression.
The other one to bear in mind is that Maitreya is now in the Inner Court of Tusita in the Desire Realm of Saha. So, like Him and Sakyamuni when He was a Bodhisattva and all other future Buddhas lined up in the Fortunate Aeon in our Saha World, all future Buddhas who will manifest in our Saha World in their second last birth will stopover this 'Pure Abode' and await for the previous Buddha's Dispensation to conclude before they manifest theirs.
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby sinweiy » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:14 am

our saha world system, will have a thousand Buddhas, Shakyamuni being only the 4th while Maitreya being the 5th. 95 more to go! Dharma Protector Wei Tuo Bodhisattva will be the last.

also

http://www.blia.org/english/publication ... ges/14.htm

III. The Different Types of Pure Lands

[In addition to the Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, there are many other pure lands.] The many pure lands can be classified into four main categories: the distinctive pure lands of the Mahayana School, the pure land of the Three Vehicles, the pure land of the Five Vehicles, and the pure land on Earth.
------
C. The Pure land of the Five Vehicles

The Pure Land of the Five Vehicles—human, celestial being, and the three vehicles mentioned in the last section—is in fact the Tusita Pure Land of Maitreya Bodhisattva, whom Sakyamuni Bud-dha had prophesied will be the future Buddha of our world. The Tusita Pure Land, also known as the Inner Court of Tusita, is a majestic, pure heaven within the three realms, where Maitreya Bodhisattva is currently teaching the Dharma. If one is reborn in the Tusita Pure Land, one will be able to see Maitreya Bodhisattva. When Maitreya Bodhisattva becomes the Buddha of our world in the future, one will also follow Maitreya Bodhi-sattva and be reborn into this world. In this way, one has the opportunity to personally listen to the teachings of the Maitreya Buddha.

 

D. The Pure Land on Earth

An example of the Pure Land on Earth is the one described in the Vimalakirti Sutra. It was said in the sutra that though Vimalakirti lived in the saha world, his state of mind was that of the Pure Land. [So, what does the Pure Land on Earth mean? Before, we explore the answer to this question, we have to first understand the where-abouts of pure lands.]

When we speak of pure lands, be it the Mahayana Pure Land, the heavenly Pure Land, or the earthly Pure Land, we can use the colloquial term "heaven" to speak of them. When people ask where heaven or hell is, they are, in a certain way, also raising the question of the whereabouts of pure lands. In this regard, I would like to make the following three points.
_/\_
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby zamotcr » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:56 am

plwk wrote:It's the same one. But of course, it's unreasonable to expect conditions of the Saha World to be the same by then than compared to now on a conventional reality level. There are Sutras which describe what it will possibly look like by then. But at the ultimate level of pure view, there's no difference.


In Vimalakirti Sutra, Buddha was asked about why his Pure Land was impure. So, he showed the people there his real Pure Land, completly pure.
I know sutras describes how the future of Earth could be when Maitreya comes, but: are they talking of Earth, I mean, physically Earth, or are describing an invisble Pure Land that nobody see, like of what Shakyamuni showed in Vimalakirti or Amitabha's one?

Indeed the conditions of Earth when Shakyamuni came will be different of Maitreya's. So I don't know, I think we can talk of Pure Land on Earth, like the pure minded people see and a celestial one, like Shakyamuni's Pure Land, or Amitabha Pure Land, etc, etc. Maitreya's will take control of Earth, to say it in some way and will take control of his Pure Land too, or this Earth, this physical world with its 31 planes, are the "Pure Land"?

The only 'happening' are twofold:
One that occur as explained above.
The second one is the change in Dispensation, from Sakyamuni's to Maitreya's. Let me give you another example. There will come one day when Amitabha Buddha will manifest His Mahaparinirvana and so by then as per the Sutra, on the same day as that happens, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva will take over as the Host of Sukhavati when Amitabha's Dispensation is over. And then, when Avalokitesvara's is over, the third Sage of Sukhavati, Mahastamaprapta will take over.... The unique thing about Sukhavati as compared to Saha World is that the Dispensation ends as soon as the Host Buddha manifests Mahaparinirvana and the next one in line takes over as 'new management' as if to maintain the continuity of a Dharma Perfect Age in Sukhavati unlike here where we experience a Dharma Semblance Age and a Dharma Ending Age. This is one of the unique features of Sukhavati, non-retrogression.
The other one to bear in mind is that Maitreya is now in the Inner Court of Tusita in the Desire Realm of Saha. So, like Him and Sakyamuni when He was a Bodhisattva and all other future Buddhas lined up in the Fortunate Aeon in our Saha World, all future Buddhas who will manifest in our Saha World in their second last birth will stopover this 'Pure Abode' and await for the previous Buddha's Dispensation to conclude before they manifest theirs.


So, when Maitreya's come, there will be a Pure Land on Earth and a Celestial one? So Maitreya will take control over Shakyamuni's celestial Pure Land?
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby plwk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:50 pm

I hope that the below is of any help and your patience for my ramblings...

Firstly...
Saha World and what it comprises of: the traditional cosmology from Sutras, Tian Tai teaching (since this is under the East Asian Mahayana forum) and with reference to the traditional cosmology referenced from Vasubandhu's Abhidharmakosa as well. And yes in short, all of the three burning worlds of desire, form and formlessness
(33 in Mahayana and 31 in Theravada) with all of its inhabitants, including the human realm, are included in this cosmology.
I will stop at this to avoid an extensive essay here.

Secondly,
Part a.
I would think that when Sakyamuni Buddha mentioned on the entire Saha World system, it's not just limited to the human realm, that He had in mind as what is contained within the above AND there's no other world system that He's referring to. Why? Because He chose to manifest in the Saha World system and not in any other worlds.

Part b.
What is 'pure' here?
As you suggested from Vimalakirti and I would add from others like the Lotus Sutra POV, from the ultimate vantage point.
Of course, when compared grossly to Sukhavati, another world system of its own, the Saha World would look like a toilet but that's from conventional appearances.
From the zenith vantage point of a Buddha, all world systems are meritoriously adorned and without flaw, hence, the usage of 'pure' and 'empty'.
So...when Maitreya manifests as the Fifth Samyak Sambuddha, it's merely a transition from Sakyamuni.
Difference is as pointed out earlier, by then, the obvious changes to the Saha World would have been expected (I would expect no more traffic jams in the human world for example) and it's gonna be under a new Buddha's Dispensation. So, Maitreya like all of His predecessors and successors, will have 2 abodes: one during the waiting time in Inner Tusita in the second last birth and later manifesting specifically in the Saha World's human realm in the final birth, always viewing the Saha World and its triple burning worlds, the choice of their mission, as the 'pure land' that they will manifest their mission.

Part c.
From the Ven Master Dr Yin Shun's 'The Way to Buddhahood', pages 103-5 (I am rephrasing and summarising some of the points he made)
a. The 'Pure Land' (remember I used the term 'Pure Abode' to distinguish from Amitabha's Sukhavati? and there are some opinions where they choose to distinguish the term 'pure land' with reference to other world systems of Buddhas like Amitabha and Bhaisajyaguru, outside of our Saha World system) of Maitreya as He is in waiting until the Dispensation of Sakyamuni is over is known as the Inner Court of Tusita Heaven, located in our Saha World system within the ranks of the desire realm heavens. The Master mentions that this Inner Court is adorned like a 'pure land' and Maitreya's occupation for now is teaching and transforming those who take birth there.
So, from our perspective, why Tusita? Because one wants to avoid birth in the heavens of long life, especially for those practicing profound meditation.
And the other advantage is, in Tusita, one gets the chance to encounter the future Buddha and hear the Dharma, it's a far better option.
[If I may add here, an alternative for those who are already in the stream of the Noble Ones on the Arhat Path who would normally end up in the highest heaven in the realm of form, Akanishta AND for those who aren't and have not practiced to the level of entering the stream of the Noble Ones yet, Tusita is another 'easier' option and creating affinity with the future Buddha]

b. Then, when the time comes, He, like His predecessors will descent from the Inner Court of Tusita to our Saha World's human realm (Jambudvipa is mentioned) to manifest His mission and mentions that by then, our Saha World and its human realm will be like a 'pure land' [assuming that conditions by then would have improved by leaps and bounds as compared to now as mentioned in the Sutras? No more traffic jams? LOL]

c. So, for now, if one wishes to take birth in the Inner Court of Tusita, one will be in contact with Maitreya and even follow Him when the time comes for His Descent to the Saha World. The Master goes on to explain the uniqueness of vowing to be with Maitreya:
i. The proximate closeness of both the human and the Inner Court of Tusita, both located in the realm of desire within the same Saha World system unlike other Buddha Lands and the ease of shuttling back and forth between birth in Inner Tusita and the human realm.
ii. The ease of attainability: by adoption and practice of taking refuge, sila, dana and vowing to be with Maitreya (for now in the Inner Court of Tusita and later when He manifests His career as a Buddha in the Saha World's human realm) where singlemindedness is not a prerequisite unlike in other Pure Lands.
iii. Universal accessibility: one need not necessarily vow to have a Bodhi Mind nor renunciation, those with good roots and aspirations for the human and divine vehicles can aspire and practice as per ii. in consonance with His Teaching on the Five Vehicles for all sentient beings' capacity: Human, Divine, Arhat, Pratyekabuddha & Bodhisattva, now in the Inner Court of Tusita and later in His Dragon Flower Tree Assembly in the human world.
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby zamotcr » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:02 pm

Hi plwk, thanks for taking the time :D

plwk wrote:I hope that the below is of any help and your patience for my ramblings...

Firstly...
Saha World and what it comprises of: the traditional cosmology from Sutras, Tian Tai teaching (since this is under the East Asian Mahayana forum) and with reference to the traditional cosmology referenced from Vasubandhu's Abhidharmakosa as well. And yes in short, all of the three burning worlds of desire, form and formlessness
(33 in Mahayana and 31 in Theravada) with all of its inhabitants, including the human realm, are included in this cosmology.
I will stop at this to avoid an extensive essay here.



I thought that Saha World means just one system, like only our solar system, including there the 3 lokas with its beings.
Look at this link, I have a complete mess with this :lol: http://www.shaolin.org/answers/ans06b/nov06-2.html

plwk wrote:Secondly,
Part a.
I would think that when Sakyamuni Buddha mentioned on the entire Saha World system, it's not just limited to the human realm, that He had in mind as what is contained within the above AND there's no other world system that He's referring to. Why? Because He chose to manifest in the Saha World system and not in any other worlds.



Exactly, in each system or world system can exist 33 planes. In Amitabhas there are no hells, so, less planes haha.

plwk wrote:Difference is as pointed out earlier, by then, the obvious changes to the Saha World would have been expected (I would expect no more traffic jams in the human world for example) and it's gonna be under a new Buddha's Dispensation. So, Maitreya like all of His predecessors and successors, will have 2 abodes: one during the waiting time in Inner Tusita in the second last birth and later manifesting specifically in the Saha World's human realm in the final birth, always viewing the Saha World and its triple burning worlds, the choice of their mission, as the 'pure land' that they will manifest their mission.


So, this Earth, I mean, physical plane, will be a physical pure land without traffic jams :lol:?
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby sinweiy » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:57 am

to what i know, Maitreya Pureland on earth, human will be living like heavenly realms. Lands will be combined together, people will be very tall, living a very long life-span ; weather will be prefect for crops; clothing are grown on trees and one can just plug it down from the trees to wear, the ground will automatically open and close when one pass motion or taking a leak; the four continents(or earths, Jambudīpa, Pubbavideha, Aparagoyāna, Uttarakuru ) will be communicating and trading goods.

In the previous world before our present earth world, the era was called “Kalpa of Adornment”. During twenty small kalpas in the Stage of Existence of the Adornment Kalpa, there were one thousand Buddhas in existence to maintain the virtuous adornment of their world, hence its unique naming. Today, the current era is called the “Kalpa of Virtue”. In the twenty small kalpas of the Stage of Existence of this era, one thousand Buddhas will also be born. The present Sakyamuni Buddha is the fourth Buddha. When it comes to the fifth Buddha, his name will be Maitreya Buddha. Today, he is commonly referred to as “Maitreya Buddha – the Buddha to be”. He is presently not a Buddha and hence the name.

The next aeon is called the “Kalpa of Stars”. In this Kalpa of Stars, within the twenty small kalpas of the Stage of Existence, there will also be one thousand Buddhas.

http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no3a.htm
_/\_
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby zamotcr » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:13 pm

sinweiy wrote:to what i know, Maitreya Pureland on earth, human will be living like heavenly realms. Lands will be combined together, people will be very tall, living a very long life-span ; weather will be prefect for crops; clothing are grown on trees and one can just plug it down from the trees to wear, the ground will automatically open and close when one pass motion or taking a leak; the four continents(or earths, Jambudīpa, Pubbavideha, Aparagoyāna, Uttarakuru ) will be communicating and trading goods.


If we were to take this literal, to what corresponds the other three continents? I can take this description, well not very literal, but I can understand what it tries to tell us, a world completly better than us.

sinweiy wrote:
In the previous world before our present earth world, the era was called “Kalpa of Adornment”. During twenty small kalpas in the Stage of Existence of the Adornment Kalpa, there were one thousand Buddhas in existence to maintain the virtuous adornment of their world, hence its unique naming. Today, the current era is called the “Kalpa of Virtue”. In the twenty small kalpas of the Stage of Existence of this era, one thousand Buddhas will also be born. The present Sakyamuni Buddha is the fourth Buddha. When it comes to the fifth Buddha, his name will be Maitreya Buddha. Today, he is commonly referred to as “Maitreya Buddha – the Buddha to be”. He is presently not a Buddha and hence the name.

The next aeon is called the “Kalpa of Stars”. In this Kalpa of Stars, within the twenty small kalpas of the Stage of Existence, there will also be one thousand Buddhas.

http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no3a.htm


After reading all comments, makes me to question this: After all, pure lands like Amitabha, Medicine Buddha, etc, are physical realms like our Earth? Or are Reward Lands created by the Reward Body of the Buddha, hence invisible to our human senses?
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby plwk » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:19 pm

After reading all comments, makes me to question this: After all, pure lands like Amitabha, Medicine Buddha, etc, are physical realms like our Earth? Or are Reward Lands created by the Reward Body of the Buddha, hence invisible to our human senses?

Consider these...
http://www.sgilibrary.org/search_dict.php?id=208
[仏国土] (Skt buddha-kshetra; Jpn bukkoku-do )
Mahayana Buddhism developed the concept of the three bodies of a Buddha: the Dharma body, the reward body, and the manifested body.
It was taught that each Buddha possessed one of these three bodies— hence the Buddha of the Dharma body, the Buddha of the reward body, and the Buddha of the manifested body—and that each Buddha had his own Buddha land. The Pure Land teachings regard the Land of Perfect Bliss as the land where Amida, the Buddha of the reward body, was reborn as a reward for his many kalpas of Buddhist practice. Because of the Buddhist view that the land or environment is an element of one's entire being, however, the term Buddha land also refers to the enlightened state or absolute happiness that Buddhas enjoy, and does not necessarily indicate a paradise or pure land removed from the real world.
http://web.archive.org/web/201106140655 ... /bwf32.htm
Question I:
The Diamond Sutra states:
'All mundane (conditioned) dharmas are like dreams, illusions' shadows and bubbles.' Therefore, the Saha World being illusory, so is the Land of Ultimate Bliss.
Why not enter directly into the True Original Mind instead of seeking rebirth in an illusory world?

Answer:
In truth, all the pure and impure lands in the ten directions are like dreams and illusions; however, only when we have attained the "Illusion-like Samadhi" can we see them as illusory and false. If we have not yet reached that stage, we still see them as real, we are still subject to their sway, we still know sorrow and happiness, we still feel uncomfortable during the summer heat and are even bothered by such small things as mosquito bites. Thus, how can we speak about things being illusory?
We should realize that the Pure Land method is a wonderful expedient of the Buddhas -- borrowing an illusory realm of happiness to help sentient beings escape from an illusory realm of great suffering, full of obstructing conditions and dangers. Then, in that happy, peaceful, illusory realm, cultivation progresses easily, and the ever-silent realm of the True Mind is swiftly attained.

To take an example, in this Saha World of ours, the scenes of stifling family life and noisy downtown business districts are illusory, and so are the scenes of temples and pagodas or mountain wildernesses. However, why is it that cultivators leave the noisy environment of the cities to seek the quiet, sparsely populated landscapes of temples and pagodas hidden in the mountains? Is it not because family life creates many binding ties and bustling urban intersections are not conducive to concentration, while temples, pagodas and mountain wildernesses facilitate cultivation? For this reason, the circumstances of ordinary people are different from those of the saints. For common mortals to put themselves in the place of the saints is far-fetched and unrealistic. We who are still common mortals should follow the path of ordinary people, and cultivate gradually. We should not look with the eyes of saints and comment too far above our level, to avoid the transgression of false speech.

There was once a Zen Master who thought that the Pure Land was illusory and that reciting the Buddha's name seeking rebirth there was useless.
Upon hearing this, Elder Master Ch'e Wu said immediately:
This is a mistake. Bodhisattvas of the Seventh Stage and below are all cultivating in a dream. Even those Bodhisattvas who have reached the level of Equal Enlightenment are still fast asleep within the great dream of delusion. Only the Buddhas can be honored with the designation Great Enlightened, i.e., those who have completely awakened. When our own body is in a dream, happiness and suffering are to be expected; we still experience happiness and still know suffering. How can we consider ourselves awakened from a dream and our environment dreamlike?

This being the case, how can remaining in the suffering dream of the Saha World compare with returning to the blissful dream of the Pure Land?
Moreover, the Saha World dream goes from dream to dream, subject to the laws of karma, eternally revolving in the cycle of Birth and Death. The Pure Land dream on the other hand, is from dream to Enlightenment and gradual awakening to the ultimate stage of Buddhahood. Although the illusory dreams are the same, the conditions of the dreaming state in the two instances are really different. Thus, it is truly necessary to recite the Buddha's name seeking rebirth in the Pure Land!

These explanations have clearly demonstrated the need to seek rebirth in the Pure Land. However, the stanza from the Diamond Sutra quoted above is still an expedient explanation to help sentient beings abandon the common mortal's concept of attachment. Going one step further, as stated in the Great Prajna Paramita Sutra:
Buddha Sakyamuni explained to those of dull capacities that all dharmas are dreamlike, silent, and still, lest they develop view-attachment. To those of sharp capacities He spoke of the embellishments of the Buddhas, because they are like lotus blossoms, untouched by worldly dusts.

For this reason, Subhuti, who of all the Arhat disciples of Buddha Sakyamuni was foremost in the realization of the Truth of Emptiness (devoid of all names and marks), characteristically received a prediction that he would attain Buddhahood in the future under the title of "Name and Mark Buddha."

Thus, the sublime truth of no name or mark is inseparable from name and mark -- all illusory dharmas are the Buddhas' dharmas, true and unchanging.
Going still deeper, to the ultimate and perfect stage, as the Sixth Patriarch has said:
'Sentient beings are originally Buddhas, afflictions are Bodhi (Enlightenment), all delusions are the perfect and illuminating state, truly enlightened, of the womb of the Tathagatas.'
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby zamotcr » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:58 am

Thanks plwk and everyone for helping me! :thanks:

I'm starting to get it. With this, and with Astus explanation in other post, Pure Land could be anywhere, just our mind can't process it, after all, everything is processed by our mind, there's no outside of this mind. So, if we can't see Pure Land, it's because Karma does not let us see. I don't know if Pure Land is another plane or dimension or whatever. Also, in this physical world are a lot of particles and lights, and everthing that are imperceptible to our senses, like higher vibration and so on, so that's from a materialistic pov :D

I just have one doubt, but according to one description that sinweiy gave me. Are those descriptions to be taken literally or should I avoid take it literal and understand it's real message? I mean, things like clothing grown on trees or the four continents, sumeru, etc..
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby plwk » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:41 am

I just have one doubt, but according to one description that sinweiy gave me. Are those descriptions to be taken literally or should I avoid take it literal and understand it's real message? I mean, things like clothing grown on trees or the four continents, sumeru, etc..
On one level, here's an idea

On another level, here's another understanding of fabulosity stuff, some excerpts...
http://cttbusa.org/amitabhacommentary/amitabha13.htm
Sutra:
“Moreover, Shariputra, this Land of Ultimate Bliss is everywhere surrounded by seven tiers of railings, seven layers of netting, and seven rows of trees, all formed from the four treasures and for this reason named ‘Ultimate Bliss.’

Commentary:
The railings represent the precepts, the netting represents concentration, and the trees represent wisdom. The number seven is used for the “Seven Classes,” the classification of the Thirty-Seven Wings of Enlightenment into seven groups...
And seven rows of very tall trees. The trees represent wisdom. If you have wisdom, you are tall, without it, you are short. It’s not a question of how tall or short your body is. With wisdom you are like seven rows of tall trees; without wisdom you are like seven rows of grass! The grass has smothered your heart and you grow more and more stupid.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nara.html
Now at that time, young Sigala, a householder's son, rising early in the morning, departing from Rajagaha, with wet clothes and wet hair, worshipped with joined hands the various quarters — the East, the South, the West, the North, the Nadir, and the Zenith. Then the Exalted One, having robed himself in the forenoon took bowl and robe, and entered Rajagaha for alms. Now he saw young Sigala worshipping thus and spoke to him as follows:

"Wherefore do you, young householder, rising early in the morning, departing from Rajagaha, with wet clothes and wet hair, worship, with joined hands these various quarters — the East, the South, the West, the North, the Nadir, and the Zenith?"

"My father, Lord, while dying, said to me: The six quarters, dear son, you shall worship. And I, Lord, respecting, revering, reverencing and honoring my father's word, rise early in the morning, and leaving Rajagaha, with wet clothes and wet hair, worship with joined hands, these six quarters."

"It is not thus, young householder, the six quarters should be worshipped in the discipline of the noble."
"How then, Lord, should the six quarters be worshipped in the discipline of the noble? It is well, Lord, if the Exalted One would teach the doctrine to me showing how the six quarters should be worshipped in the discipline of the noble."
"Well, young householder, listen and bear it well in mind; I shall speak." — "Very good, Lord," responded young Sigala.

The mother and father are the East,
The Teachers are the South,
Wife and Children are the West,
The friends and associates are the North.

Servants and employees are the Nadir,
The ascetics and brahmans are the Zenith;
Who is fit to lead the household life,
These six quarters he should salute

On another level... Phenomena and Principle and below...
http://www.101zenstories.com/index.php?story=82
Nothing Exists
Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.
Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no realization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received."

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.
"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "Where did this anger come from?"

On yet another level...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html
When lay people came to visit Luang Pu, he ordinarily wouldn't ask them about anything far away. He'd usually ask, "Have you ever meditated?"
Some would respond that they had, others that they hadn't. One woman, a member of the latter group, was more outspoken than the rest.

She said, "As I see it, there's no reason we have to go to all the trouble of meditating. Every year I hear the Mahachaad sermon [a long, poetic chant of the Buddha's penultimate life, as Prince Vessantara] at least 13 times at many different temples. The monks there say that listening to the Mahachaad story guarantees I'll be reborn in the time of the Buddha Sri Ariya Metteya, where I'll meet with nothing but pleasure and ease. So why should I make things difficult for myself by meditating?"

Luang Pu said,
"Things that are excellent are right in front of your face, and yet you don't show any interest. Instead, you place your hopes on far-off things that are nothing but rumors. This is the mark of a person who's hopeless. When the paths, fruitions, and nibbana of the dispensation of the Buddha Gotama are still with us, totally complete, and yet you dither around and don't show any interest in them, then when the dispensation of the Buddha Sri Ariya Metteya comes, you'll dither around even more."
http://www.101zenstories.com/index.php?story=70
The Most Valuable Thing in the World
Sozan, a Chinese Zen master, was asked by a student: "What is the most valuable thing in the world?"
The master replied: "The head of a dead cat."

"Why is the head of a dead cat the most valuable thing in the world?" inquired the student.
Sozan replied: "Because no one can name its price."

So, what's the most valuable thing to you in the world? Clothing grown on trees? The four continents? Sumeru? Or your practice? :mrgreen:
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby sinweiy » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:42 pm

zamotcr wrote:I just have one doubt, but according to one description that sinweiy gave me. Are those descriptions to be taken literally or should I avoid take it literal and understand it's real message? I mean, things like clothing grown on trees or the four continents, sumeru, etc..



http://www.jenchen.org.sg/venmast.htm
many years ago i already heard this from lated Ven Shen-Kai, who founded World Jen Chen Buddhism (Humanity Vehicle Buddhism) which emphasis on Maitreya and VOWED to keep reborning until Maitreya come to earth and create his pureland! what he taught are from Mahayana sutras. a lot of sutras are not translated out there only.
The Sutra of Maitreya's Attaining Buddhahood
The 'Sutra of the Coming of Maitreya'

... and his teaching i heard are insightful. it's said that he's a Xing Fu Ying 幸福音bodhisattva, a real bodhisattva.

here are the details:-

Maitreya is a blessed Buddha. At the time when he arrives to be born, the earth will have gone through many changes. Mountains, rivers, cliffs and gorges will have disappeared, and most parts of the Earth will have become flat plains. The seas will be calm and the soil fertile, so there will be many natural recreational parks. Favourable weather conditions will prevail throughout the four seasons. Beautiful flowers will blossom everywhere and everything will be pleasant. Crops and harvests will be plentiful. Fruits will be beautiful and sweet. Grains will grow naturally and without husk. They will be extremely fragrant and tasty. When matured, the grains will be readily edible without the need for cooking. Feeding on them, people will enjoy longevity and will be free from sickness. There will be no natural disasters. Everyone will be kind, good-natured, and free of evil thoughts and behaviour. Greed, anger, ignorance, arrogance, suspicion�. killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, false speech, intoxication �.etc, unwholesome thoughts and bad conduct all will not exist. Everyone will realise the wonderful practice of cultivating the three pure karmas of body, speech and mind. They will exhibit equality in thinking and will not discriminate. They will distance from disputes and will be amicable and joyous with each another. They will utter good words of encouragement, perform numerous virtuous deeds and refrain from all evil deeds. There will be no need to worry about food and drink. As for clothing, weaving will not be needed, since soft delicate garments of different styles will grow from celestial garment trees on earth. People can help themselves to these for clothing. Palaces and houses will miraculously appear, and the ground filth-free. As for latrines, whenever people need to relieve themselves, the ground will automatically open up to receive their waste and then close up afterward. The ground will produce different kinds of precious gems that can casually be handpicked by anyone. Admiring and playing with these gems, people will say, "I've heard that in past kalpas (possibly referring to our present kalpa) people hurt one another over such gems and precious stones. They were imprisoned and suffered all sorts of distress. Now these gems and precious stones are like tiles and stones which no one needs to guard over. This really is a pure and peaceful world."

At that time, even though the world will consist of many small countries, only one big country will be the common ruler. On the Earth will be a vast plain, covering four million Li (里 ), with four great oceans located in each direction. There will exist a big city named Ketumati City (鸡 头 城 ), spanning 500 Li from east to west, and 280 Li from north to south. The land is flat and expansive and well populated with people. The streets are neat and orderly. In the sky above, there will be a dragon king named 'Water Radiance', drizzling fragrant water at night and maintaining breezy sunny weather during the day. In the city, a Yaksa (罗 杀 从 , Demon) by the name of 'Leaf-Flower', will appear in the middle of the night to serve the people; removing the filth from the city, sweeping and cleaning, and sprinkling the ground with perfumes so that the city will be very clean and fragrant. Dragons, deities and ghosts will work for the benefit of human beings. They neither need offerings to be made to them nor do they need to be worshipped, as such superstitious practices will no longer exist. The climate and environment will be favourable; the citizens gentle and amiable; and ghosts and deities will provide their support and protection. These conditions effect the birth of a 'Turning-Wheel Saint King' (转 轮圣 王 ) named Rang-qu. Ketumati is his capital city. The King will apply Buddha-dharma to govern and guide his subjects. He has the Golden Wheel Treasure, Elephant Treasure, Horse Treasure, Pearl Treasure, the Lady of Virtue and Beauty Treasure, the Minister of Soldiers Treasure, and the Minister of Treasure. He will secure the city with these treasures, rather than with conventional swords and batons. The place will be carefree and joyous, and freedom, peace and equality will prevail.

http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol8no3a.htm
_/\_
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"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby sinweiy » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:39 am

(Xing Fu Ying 幸福音bodhisattva = 'Blessed Sound' Bodhisattva.)

other Mahayana sutras about Maitreya not found to be translated are:-
 此二经是指《佛说观弥勒菩萨上生兜率生经》Buddha Pronounces the Sutra of Maitreya Bodhisattva's Reborn into Tusita Heaven、《佛说弥勒下生经》。兹分别介绍如次:    佛说观弥勒菩萨上生兜率天经   《佛说观弥勒菩萨上生兜率天经》,本经又称《弥勒上生经》、《观弥勒上生经》、《上生经》、《观弥勒菩萨上生兜率陀天经

本经是弥勒三部经之一、六部经之一。是弥勒经典中最晚译出的作品,也是弥勒净土信仰所依据的主要经典之一。(六部是:《观弥勒上生经》Sutra of Contemplating the Coming of Maitreya、《弥勒下生经》Sutra of the Coming of Maitreya、《弥勒来时经》、《观弥勒菩萨下生经》、《弥勒下生成佛经》Buddha Pronounces the Sutra of Maitreya Bodhisattva's Attainment of Buddhahood 、《弥勒大成佛经》)
http://www.zsctrip.com/culture/buddhism/0531447.shtml


only this i found is translated,
Buddha Pronounces the Sutra of Maitreya Bodhisattva's Attainment of Buddhahood
Translated from Sanskrit into Chinese in the Yao Chin Dynasty
by The Tripitaka Master Kumarajiva from Kucha


http://www.purifymind.com/Sutras36.htm

:namaste:
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"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby sinweiy » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:52 am

zamotcr wrote:..Pure Land could be anywhere, just our mind can't process it, after all, everything is processed by our mind, there's no outside of this mind. So, if we can't see Pure Land, it's because Karma does not let us see. I don't know if Pure Land is another plane or dimension or whatever.



more about the meaning of "Buddha-field" (or "Buddha-verse" or Buddha-Universe :smile: ) explained by Robert Thurman, refering to Vimalakirti Sutra.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1bmhhIa ... e=youtu.be
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"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby sinweiy » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:44 am

Image
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby Hickersonia » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:53 am

I sure wish I could read some of that!
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby RikudouSennin » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:12 am

If my understanding is correct, then there is quite literally an illusory land of Utmost Bliss. (+=-)
Then I would assume there is quite literally an illusory Sambhogakaya Buddha named Amitabha. (+=-)

And a rebirth in Ultimate Bliss is greater than a Saha World Rebirth because we are not Buddhas and the literal illusory land of Upmost Bliss is better for rebirth-Great Enlightenment.

Im assuming this is a correct understanding.

Namo Amitabha, Namu Amida Bu , Namu Amitabul !!!
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby sinweiy » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:40 am

the illusory was Mount Sumeru rather than Land of Utmost Bliss, by the way. :smile:
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"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby RikudouSennin » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:58 am

sinweiy wrote:the illusory was Mount Sumeru rather than Land of Utmost Bliss, by the way. :smile:


Thanks for the correction. I wasn't sure even when i typed it in.
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Re: Shakyamuni Pure Land and Maitreya

Postby sinweiy » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:45 am

regarding Mount Sumeru,

world systems

The Buddha taught that the earth is not the center of the universe and is not the only planet with intelligent life. He taught that there are an infinite number of world-systems, that some of those worlds are inhabited by intelligent life, and that on some of those worlds other Buddhas also teach the Buddhadharma.

I. DESCRIPTION OF A WORLD-SYSTEM

"One sun, one moon, one Mount Sumeru, and one set of four great continents is what is called 'a set of four continents under heaven,' that is, a world-system. In our world-system, a smaller version of the larger whole, Asia could be called Southern Jambudvipa. Probably America is equivalent to Eastern Purvavideha, Europe to Western Aparagodaniya, and the Soviet Union to Northern Uttarakuru. However the Buddhist Sutras say that the inhabitants of Northern Uttarakuru do not see the Buddha, do not hear the Dharma, and do not see members of the Sangha. They say that when it is daytime in Southern Jambudvipa, it is nighttime in Northern Uttarakuru. Every world-system has these four great continents, and perhaps sometimes the directions of the four can be different. Don't get attached to it." (EDR VIII 215-216)

II. A GREAT WORLD SYSTEM OF A BILLION WORLDS

A thousand world-systems of four great continents, etc. comprise a 'small world-system.' A thousand small world-systems comprise a middle-sized world system, and a thousand middle-sized world-systems comprise a great world-system of a billion worlds, or literally a thousand times an thousand times a thousand worlds (Skt. trisahasramahasahasralokadhatu).

http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/Bu ... t/BDW.html

i hear old MCK and his lated dharma friend Huang Nian Zhu (黄念祖 a Vajrayana Master Lama 金刚上师) who is also into science, said that a world-system of four great continents resemblance the milky way. and the heart of milky ways obits around a Black hole due to its great gravitational force. and the black hole resemblance our Mount Sumeru.

ref:
http://s11.sinaimg.cn/middle/6d2b8a32g7a442e1ddcda&690


The Milky Way is a barred spiral galaxy 100,000–120,000 light-years in diameter containing 200–400 billion stars. It may contain at least as many planets.[18][19] The Solar System is located within the disk, around two thirds of the way out from the Galactic Center, on the inner edge of a spiral-shaped concentration of gas and dust called the Orion Arm. The stars in the inner ≈10,000 light-years are organized in a bulge and one or more bars. The very center is marked by an intense radio source named Sagittarius A* which is likely to be a supermassive black hole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way
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