Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
Samanthabhadra
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Samanthabhadra » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:42 pm

My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times.

- PadmaSambhava.

Nikolay
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Nikolay » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:44 pm

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Jesse
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Jesse » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:44 pm

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

Samanthabhadra
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Samanthabhadra » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:48 pm

My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times.

- PadmaSambhava.

Samanthabhadra
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Samanthabhadra » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:51 pm

My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times.

- PadmaSambhava.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:04 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

black_tea
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby black_tea » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:26 pm

Assuming that you are actually being serious and not just trolling...

I personally think that things like rebirth and karma are pretty necessary concepts, and that without them the whole system doesn't hang together as well. However, I can't force people to believe the way that I do -- people will believe or they won't, and it's possible they may change their minds at least once in their lives but no one can force them to do so. It really isn't your right or mine to try. You can put forth your own viewpoint (hopefully in a tactful way), but that's all you can really do. Making sweeping pronouncements and ridiculing others is not going to change any minds -- it's going to make people not take you seriously and not want to hear what you have to say. Besides, I'm pretty sure that ridiculing others would fall under wrong speech.

You also keep bringing up deities as examples of things that real Buddhists should know about. Yet, there are many schools of Buddhism besides Vajrayana -- I'm not secular, but these 100 deities have nothing to do with my practice. Buddhism isn't monolithic. There are basic ideas that the different schools share, that make them Buddhist, but beyond that there is a lot of variation (84,000 dharma doors and all that). So be careful about declaring what constitutes real Buddhists and real Buddhism -- you really aren't speaking for your co-religionists in the East or West, only yourself.

CrawfordHollow
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby CrawfordHollow » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:31 pm

I understand that the dieties don't exist independant of ourselves. In fact, this is what I said in my first post, that the deities are the aggregates and the elements as they truly are. I am not disputing this. What I am questioning is your view that the dieties live in some "platonic realm" or whatever is was. You are the one who said that vajrayana was about having dialouges with deities. This seems to be a very dualistic and simplistic way to view vajrayana. Vajrayana is not polytheism and the writings and teachings of all the Tibetan masters support this. If you don't agree with that, then that is fine, but it doesn't help your cause to come on here and say that you are a representative of the one and only true Buddhist view when you clearly seem to have confusion yourself about what that view actually is.

CrawfordHollow
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby CrawfordHollow » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:42 pm

What exactly do you mean by saying that gods orchestrate this emperical reality? And in what sense do you think that they are real?

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:52 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:55 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

greentara
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby greentara » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:18 pm

'Try to be mindful, and let things take their natural course. Then your mind will become still in any surroundings, like a clear forest pool. All kinds of wonderful, rare animals will come to drink at the pool, and you will clearly see the nature of all things. Yu will see many strange and wonderful things come and go, but you will be still. This is the happiness of the Buddha"
Ajahn Chah

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retrofuturist
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:28 am

Greetings,

I think the only thing this topic has demonstrated is that Samanthabhadra is intolerant.

Did I miss anything else of note?

:broke:

Maitri,
Retro. :)
Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:37 am

Apparently, destroying secular Buddhism is one of his...aspirations *ZING*
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Fu Ri Shin
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Fu Ri Shin » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:47 am

"Once delusion is extinguished, your wisdom naturally arises and you don’t differentiate suffering and joy. Actually, this joy and this suffering, they are the same."

— Chinese hermit, Amongst White Clouds

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wisdom
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby wisdom » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:01 am

The only view to establish is the view of emptiness free from extremes, the only path that is "valid" Buddhism is the one which teaches the four noble truths and leads one to liberation from suffering (which is pretty much all forms of Buddhism). The only thing that actually matters is recognizing your own innate Buddha Nature, by whatever term you understand that, and abiding in that.

If you are holding the *Proper* view as taught by Buddhism, how could the question of tolerance even arise in your mind stream? What is there that exists that you would tolerate or not tolerate? Its meaningless. How could you even consider that one Dharma path was "Superior" to any others, or "more real" than any others? The proper view holds no position and pays no heed to the positions of others. It certainly doesn't stand by and judge one view as "right" and another view as "wrong". Even the view I am speaking of here is eventually abandoned, not clung to. Once it is realized, one abides in the realization and does not dwell on the concept. When the two truths are really comprehended and integrated into your mind, everything becomes "Of one taste". The absolute and conventional mix like water into water, and one no longer makes distinctions between this and that. This is true non-dual view.

You say that the gods are in and around us, forming our bodies. Yet when I look at the material of my body, I find no gods. I only find that the body is nothing more than organs, and the organs nothing more than systems and processes, and these are nothing more than simple life forms that perform various functions, and these in turn are composed of smaller things. Even as I cannot find anything you would call a "self" within my body or mind, I do not find anything you call a "god" in my body or mind either. Even if I found such a thing, it would be dependently arisen, composed of the elements, and purely a concept created by my own mind. Upon examination any god I found in my body is just this- my belief in a dependently arisen being as being real. This is in fact dualistic thinking in a nut-shell.

I would go back to the study board and the cushion if I were you, one can never take enough care in trying to understand these profound teachings.

DGA
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby DGA » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:06 am


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Karma Dorje
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Karma Dorje » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:09 am

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

undefineable
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby undefineable » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:42 am

Last edited by undefineable on Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:20 am, edited 6 times in total.

undefineable
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby undefineable » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:49 am



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