Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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CrawfordHollow
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby CrawfordHollow » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:51 pm

Could you please explain who this "us" is that you are representing? Also, perhaps you could tell us what lineage or teacher that you have, because all of the Tibetan lamas that I have met have taught about a view that is quite different than what you are enforcing. According to Longchenpa, Mipham, and Khenchen Palden Sherab Rinpoche the hundred peacful and wrathful deities of the Guhyagarbha Tantra do not exist apart from us in any sense. There is no duality of us down here, and them up there in some pure realm.

"The Secret Essence Tantra explains that the entire universe-including our minds and winds-are the deity. Sounds, form, and space are all in the divine, enlightened state."
Khenchen Palden Sherab

The deities are actually symbolic of the purity of our aggregates and the elements, ect. The way I have been taught (from very Asian people, mind you) is that the deities in vajrayana are a symbol for our own enlightened nature.

"When you meditate on yourself as the deity, you are in fact meditating on your own true nature as represented by that form."
Gyatrul Rinpoche

This is not to say that the deities do not exist at all, for they are the sambhogakaya manifestations of enlightenment, which can take on any form. But to say that they are gods seperate from us goes against the whole teaching of vajrayana. Especially from the perspective of dzogchen there is nothing eternal about them, because they are just as illusory as everything else.

Also, who besides B. Allan Wallace are all of these scholars that we must accept as undisputed fact? Wallace is one person, and there are many equally intelligent and competant Buddhist thinkers out there that would disagree with him. So... are my teachers wrong too when they say that the deities are symbolic for the pure nature of our mind and experience, or are they just lying to us?

Samanthabhadra
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Samanthabhadra » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:53 pm

My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times.

- PadmaSambhava.

Nikolay
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Nikolay » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:54 pm

My views are quite similar to the OP, and this thread makes me feel embarrassed.

I call troll.
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Samanthabhadra
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Samanthabhadra » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:55 pm

My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times.

- PadmaSambhava.

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Jesse
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Jesse » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:57 pm

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

BuddhaSoup
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby BuddhaSoup » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:58 pm


Nikolay
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Nikolay » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:59 pm

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Jesse
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Jesse » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:03 pm

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

CrawfordHollow
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby CrawfordHollow » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:08 pm

Well, saying that the Buddha and the deities exist in an "eternal platonic realm" sounds pretty dualistic to me. The notion that they are "up there" and the ture believers "down here" can communicate with them also sounds pretty dualistc.

Either way, maybe you could answer a few of my questions that I posted.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:08 pm

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

Samanthabhadra
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Samanthabhadra » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:12 pm

My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times.

- PadmaSambhava.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:13 pm

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

Nikolay
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Nikolay » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:14 pm

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Astus
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Astus » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:17 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



CrawfordHollow
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby CrawfordHollow » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:18 pm

We don't realize our own purity, and deities are an expression of the purity itself. I am certaintly not the best person to be answering this, but I would also say look into the meaning of the sambhogakaya.

T. Chokyi
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby T. Chokyi » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:19 pm


CrawfordHollow
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby CrawfordHollow » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:23 pm

So how can a hierarchy be non-dualistic?

Nikolay
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Nikolay » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:26 pm

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Grigoris
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Grigoris » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:35 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Jesse
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Re: Should secular Buddhism be tolerated?

Postby Jesse » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:35 pm

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus


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