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Mara and enlightenment - Dhamma Wheel

Mara and enlightenment

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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BlueLotus
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Mara and enlightenment

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:41 pm

I have 2 questions pls

1) Is enlightenment a state of being?
2) Is Mara just a concept/metaphor?

Thanks :anjali:

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cooran
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Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby cooran » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:41 pm

Hello BlueLotus,

Could you define what you mean by ''enlightenment'' please?

Regarding Mara - this might be of interest:

The Buddha's Encounters with Mara the Tempter - Their Representation in Literature and Art
by Ananda W.P. Guruge
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el419.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

befriend
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby befriend » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:49 pm

renounce every pleasure you can for a day, and see how your mind reacts. a part of your mind will say nooooo you will be alinated from everyone you will miss pleasures, it will talk to you like a person not just a thought. this is Mara. even if he isnt real it might as well be because the metaphor is so real.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:58 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

Memmz
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby Memmz » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:17 pm


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BlueLotus
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby BlueLotus » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:12 pm

But why is Mara referred to as a person? Why not just say it is a concept and define it more clearly?

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cooran
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby cooran » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:43 pm

Hello Blue Lotus,

This long dictionary explanation may provide some more information for consideration:

Māra
http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_n ... /maara.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

alan
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby alan » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:31 am

BlueLotus,
I see no reason to consider Mara as a person. Probably best to consider Mara as a metaphor representing the hindrances, and our psychological struggle to overcome them.
Memnz: Note that a metaphor is different from a concept.

alan
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby alan » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:08 am

If you want to conceptualize Mara, think of it as a skillful way of addressing your weaknesses. This is helpful because it de-personalizes tendencies which you might otherwise find too difficult to deal with directly.
For example, when I get angry and feel inclined to be sarcastic, I can lecture myself on the need to be nice. But that doesn't always work.
It is much easier to turn my guns toward Mara, and vow to defeat it. Addressing difficult emotions? Hard. I'll probably avoid it. Challenging yourself to beat the hell out of Mara? Also hard, but sure sounds like fun!
I like a good fight, and if Mara wants to fight, then I say bring it on.
This is the value of a good metaphor--it gives you space to rewrite your conditioned reactions.

And now that I've thought about it, maybe I'll actually start doing it.
:smile:

befriend
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby befriend » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:23 am

have tea with mara, dont fight him. your supposed to ignore mara when he comes into your mind, not battle him. mara is that man in your head that says one more cookie
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

alan
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby alan » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:18 am

Sutta reference for that statement?

befriend
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby befriend » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:49 am

my teacher says your not supposed to fight with mara, you just ignore him and come back to your meditation object.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

alan
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby alan » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:55 am

Your teacher is afraid of a fight. Don't trust people who shy away from doing their job.
What is your job? To fight the hindrances.

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ground
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby ground » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:03 am


alan
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Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby alan » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:36 am

Meaning what, exactly?
Please explain your understanding of concepts and metaphors. Which is most useful, and how is this knowledge best applied?

befriend
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby befriend » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:41 pm

why dont you ask your teacher.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

befriend
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Re: Mara and enlightenment

Postby befriend » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:22 pm

defenitely ever hindrance has an antidote, thinking about impermanence helps stop desire, kindness stops aversion, doubt is stopped by noticing the doubt, restlessness is stopped by expanding your awareness to experience sounds, sleepiness can be stopped by walking meditation straightening the back. i dont know im not to learned with mara all i know is when im about to have an insight or make some progress i get visions of naked women sometimes trying to distract my efforts. thats what i mean by mara.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life


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