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Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

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beeblebrox
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:56 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:05 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:11 pm

Exactly, Tiltbillings... there is nothing about the "present moment." It wasn't framed it in that way.

:anjali:

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tiltbillings
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:21 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby daverupa » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:27 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:26 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:29 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:08 pm

It's more to do with the way Dukkhanirodha seems to think it means... as something that excludes remembrance. It has nothing to do with the way you or the vipassana masters view it. (I'll be without computer for a while.) :anjali:

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Sekha
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby Sekha » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:38 am

"present moment" is not that important. It was to contrast with "recollection of the past"

I fully agree with B. Analayo's definition "presence of the mind".

I have to leave all the discussions behind to dedicate myself to the practice. So I won't be able to answer any critics any more
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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Sekha
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Misinterpretation of sati: why

Postby Sekha » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:19 am

I am just dropping the topic as I am about to get off the connected world.

I had the following thought regarding the reason why people want to interpret sati as 'remembrance':

At the initial stage of practice, the mind is constantly loosing the object and one has to remember as often as possible to refocus on the object. And the people who are not undertaking the gradual path (see ) properly can hardly move to any higher stage. So for those people, that is the only experience of meditation they have and since they interpret the instructions of the Buddha in reference to their own experience, they tend to mistake the effort to bring back the mind to the object for meaning sati.

But this is not even sati. It is just the prerequisite stage to be completed before being able to be endowed with sati. If they cleanded up their daily life from all the activities that stir up their agitation, as for example participating actively to this forum, if they practiced more seriously for longer perdiods of time and if they got their mind clean enough, they could experience the next stage. Of course, this is not easy and spending time here is not helping.

There comes a time when the mind notices that the object was lost within a second. Then, within a fraction of second. And eventually, the mind remains fixed on the object, so there is no need to 'remember' to refocus on it. Further there comes a stage where one is so much focused on the object, on the arising and passing of phenomena within the object, that the object becomes the only existing thing in the world, one forgets about meditation, forgets about being a human being, one forgets about anything that was heard or said before, only focused on the present phenomena within the object. This is what I take to mean absorption in the object. And no one can say that there is no more sati in this case. Sati is more present than ever.

So this explains why interpreting sati as 'remembrance' is not consistant with levels of practice higher than the initial stage, and this is why meditation teachers such as Goenka or Pa Auk interpret sati as "mindfulness" and not as 'remembrance' in the context of the practice. And those who do not practice properly are highly liable to misinterpret the instructions given in the suttas. If on top of that they try to spread their wrong views, they are misrepresenting the Buddha and his teaching, they harm themselves and all those who, having read them, take up their wrong views.

:anjali:
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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Alex123
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Re: Misinterpretation of sati: why

Postby Alex123 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:36 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Jess
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Re: Meanings of sati undebunkable once and for all

Postby Jess » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:52 pm

Samma sati and all "Samma" qualities are those that appear at the moment of noble path - one of the four enlightenments. That's why Samma sati as quoted from the canon above doesn't describe what sati is as much as say it is the sati that is there when defilement are extinguished.
This is not a sati that we practice - it is a sati that arises automatically from the merits and momentum of our correct practice.
As to what sati itself is, it is a bit different with the mind vs the body. For body, it is just straight knowing or seeing the present phenomenon. Regarding mind, it is neither the focus nor the steering back to focus. It is the recollection. Releasing or awakening to what the mind has just done, whether it has arisen a defilement, got lost in thought or moved in to refocus. It is not a doing, but an anupassana, a seeing after the fact, or, a recalling but not a thought recall. A recollection of what the mind just did. Visit my masters site. Source www.dhamma.com/en


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