[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
Notice that in the Buddhist texts the Buddha is nearly always referred to as 'Tathagatha'. This is not a personal name but the description of the state of being of the Buddha. It means both 'thus-gone' (where 'gone' means 'gone to Nirvana' or 'extinguished') and 'thus come'. But the point is, it is not the name of a person, but the condition of the realized being.
Teachers might also embody and be able to convey that state of being. But consideration of who does and who doesn't is rarely edifying.
Long (14 pages to date) story short, a Zen master is someone who's had a glimpse of Buddha nature, in addition to knowing some measure of Buddhist teachings and rituals, etc. A glimpse of Buddha nature essentially means having had a kensho experience.
So for the Zen tradition, "mastery" doesn't appear to necessarily mean enlightenment. In other words, a Zen master is not necessarily enlightened. No one seems to know exactly what a Zen master has mastered.
Everyone is enlightened to some degree. What is your threshold?
I do not know how enlightenment can be seen in others. If you see Tathagata, it is your enlightenment. If your don't see it, it's your view. Thus, I think that views have no power to grasp enlightenment, or to see it in others. As mentioned TNH said, "all views are wrong views".
dyanaprajna2011 wrote:Are there any enlightened masters today, of any school?
I can't see why there wouldn't be.
"that firstIy, on the 15th day of 12th Moon in 2012 during an early morning puja, I saw my Master attaining the Rainbow Dharma Body and watch with awe the immense benefits of achieving this level of highest liberation. The seven colors of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet with each color representing its individual meaning and function that can manifest into countless ways of helping sentient beings so many that I unable to record. There are the main ones which I cannot reveal openly in tantric practice."
Simon E. wrote:randomseb wrote:If someone calls themselves an "enlightened master", they are most probably no where close to being so.. Hope that helps
Any chance of you producing evidence for your statement ?
Diamond Sutra Chapter 9 I would think. Something along those lines.
http://www.diamond-sutra.com/diamond_su ... page9.html
As Jikan observed, there are some individuals with attainments beyond description. I watch the youtubes of the Kaihigyo monks and have a sense that these men exist and practice in a realm to which I could only aspire. I suspect that in all serious traditions there are men and women who quietly exist in each day in a fully liberated state.
Jikan wrote:The 2009 translation of the Surangama Sutra presents the 50 demonic states in such a way as to suggest that they all share the same root: assuming one is accomplished (or asserting that one is accomplished), when one is actually not. This is near to randomseb's comment but precisely the same.
I guess the issue for me Jikan, is what about allowing titles that imply accomplishment to those that actually are ?
The default position seems to be that any such appellation is seen to be indicative of falsity, but that seems draconian surely ?
...but at the same time we see few Westerners hesitate to refer to His Holiness the Dalai Lama as His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Which suggests to me that even the most cynical attitudes toward the recognition of mastery has its limits.
I think this will be a sticky issue moving forward regardless. There will be instances in which one person's master will inevitably be another person's megalomaniac. "Sky flowers" in the language of the Surangama...
And so they lose their way
Re: Enlightened Masters.
Drawing water, Chopping Wood.
Drawing water, Chopping Wood.
(by which it means ..... there is no change in your life).
(Hint: if you don't understand, look down below at my signature and read that little poem).
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
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