Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:18 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:If the intention of the person being recorded is to transmit something, and the intention of the person watching it is to receive something, then where is the problem?

Is there some sort of expiry/use by date on intention? Who defines this date?


Greg, ChNN Rinpoche himself said that only listening to live webcasts is considered to be transmission from him. Replays are only notes for refreshing our memory. :namaste:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:25 pm

I am not disputing what Rinpoche says, what I am discussing is the concept of "live", especially when applied to web casts.

Webcasts are a medium, a medium that has a stronger illusion of intimacy and directness than, say, the written medium, but it is still a medium nonetheless.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby T. Chokyi » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:40 pm

Dronma wrote:[

ChNN Rinpoche himself said that only listening to live webcasts is considered to be transmission from him. Replays are only notes for refreshing our memory. :namaste:


This is 100% correct, and Pero says it also, and he is correct. CHNNR gives the lung during the live webcasts, it only makes sense, he is present during that webcast, he is there when you are there, this is what HE considers to be the time the lung is transmitted, so it is keeping with CHNNR's intention.

He reminded me of this on my private interview with him in July 2013 at his house in New England. I asked him if I could tell people about his teachings and webcast and he said "yes" and also reminded me that the only time they are actually receiving the lung is when he is on LIVE.

:namaste:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby muni » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:55 pm

"Beyond any kind of limitations". Namkhay Norbu Rinpoche

http://vimeo.com/48582470

:namaste:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby MalaBeads » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:10 pm

Over time, i have found best to not try and turn any statement made by any teacher into an absolute. And to not compare what a teacher says to one student to what he/she says to another student. In fact, i have heard a Tibetan teacher say exactly that. ChNN teaches this in many ways.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:45 pm

It is not that teachers are saying one thing to a student and the opposite thing to somebody else. It is that students due to ignorance, we are not able to comprehend correctly the words of the teacher, and sometimes we rely up on imaginary interpretations.
ChNNR is saying often not to run behind our fantasies.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:18 pm

T. Chokyi wrote:He reminded me of this on my private interview with him in July 2013 at his house in New England.


July 2013 haven't happened yet I'm afraid.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:21 pm

MalaBeads wrote:Over time, i have found best to not try and turn any statement made by any teacher into an absolute. And to not compare what a teacher says to one student to what he/she says to another student. In fact, i have heard a Tibetan teacher say exactly that. ChNN teaches this in many ways.

Ciao.


I agree fully, even the things we all hear him say on the webcast manage to take on many different meanings depending on who is listening.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby T. Chokyi » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:32 pm

heart wrote:
T. Chokyi wrote:He reminded me of this on my private interview with him in July 2013 at his house in New England.


July 2013 haven't happened yet I'm afraid.

/magnus


typo... 2012

New people that have not heard Rinpoche in person should understand that they get the DI and the
lungs (like for Dorje Drollo etc) from the master when he is live in person on the webcast, and not from replays,
although listening to the replay we can learn. If you have any doubt just write your local Gar.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby MalaBeads » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:17 pm

I happen to agree that there is a significant difference between listening to Rinpoche give a lung live on webcast and listening to the replay. Anyone who has ever attended a live music performance and then listened to the CD must know this is true.

I don't know the proper words to use (seems not quite correct to say there is a difference in vibration and/or energy but those words seem closest). Something essential seems to happen to sound when it is on tape vs when it is live. Something gets lost on tape. It is not just about time.

Perhaps not everyone agrees with this - and honestly i cant remember hearing Rinpoche say anything specific about it (i dont want to pull that rabbit out of my hat, so to speak) What I am saying is just from my own experience of being at a live music performance vs listening to a CD. Something gets lost. It's not the same.

That's all. :smile:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby simhanada » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:24 am

gregkavarnos wrote:Essentially you are listening to a replay anyway. The teaching is recorded, transformed to binary and then transmitted. So drawing the line at the replay of something said a second, minute, hour, day, week, month, year ago seems kind of arbitrary really doesn't it?

If the intention of the person being recorded is to transmit something, and the intention of the person watching it is to receive something, then where is the problem?

Is there some sort of expiry/use by date on intention? Who defines this date?


I understand what your saying but I think Rinpoche's intention, how he perceives the process to take place is important. To me it seems that the intention is there to transmit the teachings then, at that moment to whoever is listening at that time through the provided mediums, some of those mediums have minor delays. The replays do not seem to be one of the intended mediums.

Taking your example to the extreme, when Rinpoche teaches to large groups and they use a PA system (where sound is converted into digital information, transmitted to speakers and then the sound reaches the recipients ear, milliseconds later) it is the same as listening to a recording years later. Since that doesn't make sense there must be some other reason, beyond the second, minute, hour, week, month, year delay as to why Rinpoche doesn't want recordings to be considered lung or transmission.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:08 am

simhanada wrote:Since that doesn't make sense there must be some other reason, beyond the second, minute, hour, week, month, year delay as to why Rinpoche doesn't want recordings to be considered lung or transmission.
Yup, I agree. And I am just wondering: "What is the reason?"
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:03 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
simhanada wrote:Since that doesn't make sense there must be some other reason, beyond the second, minute, hour, week, month, year delay as to why Rinpoche doesn't want recordings to be considered lung or transmission.
Yup, I agree. And I am just wondering: "What is the reason?"


My understanding is that if Rinpoche isn't in the transmitting mood, there is no transmission. So if there is a slight delay it doesn't matter as long as Rinpoche is actually transmitting this particular teaching at this time and is including in his transmission everyone receiving the webcast.

/magnus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Jikan » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:20 pm

I first got involved in Dzogchen Community when direct introduction was still given globally by a DVD system. Everyone turned on their TVs, plugged in the video, hit play at precisely the same time, and thus direct introduction was given. It was explained to me that it has everything to do with timing and intention: since everyone is involved and cooperating at the same time, with the intention to collaborate, then there are no problems.

This principle surely carries over into this discussion about the timing or mistiming or whatever of the webcasts.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby kirtu » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:58 pm

Jikan wrote:It was explained to me that it has everything to do with timing and intention: since everyone is involved and cooperating at the same time, with the intention to collaborate, then there are no problems.


heart wrote:My understanding is that if Rinpoche isn't in the transmitting mood, there is no transmission.


I was going to mention the intention aspect but I'm not a member of the Dzogchen Community. The intention to transmit is the vital key and the difference between actual transmission and a recording. Transmission is a dependent arising created by the intention of the Vajra Master and the receptivity of the student. As Vasubandhu stated, the realms of existence come into being through intention.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:05 pm

DVD transmissions??? Does it work with cassetes and vinyl too? :tongue: What about blue ray?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Jikan » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:15 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:DVD transmissions??? Does it work with cassetes and vinyl too? :tongue: What about blue ray?


I think it was VHS before DVD (the video was just a prop as near as I can tell to get everyone practicing simultaneously and with the proper intention). The webcast sent the DVD to the end of the bench.

I prefer vinyl myself.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:25 pm

kirtu wrote:I was going to mention the intention aspect but I'm not a member of the Dzogchen Community. The intention to transmit is the vital key and the difference between actual transmission and a recording. Transmission is a dependent arising created by the intention of the Vajra Master and the receptivity of the student. As Vasubandhu stated, the realms of existence come into being through intention.

Kirt
This though still does not answer my question about intention: does intention have a use by/expiry date?

I can have the intention to build a safe road for people to drive on (for example) and so I build it. Does my intention end when the building ends? When the building starts? When people are using the safe road? ...?

By the same token I may have the intention to produce a video that allows for transmission/pointing out. When does my intention end?

If Dzogchen is beyond space and time, then how can its transmission be bound by space and time? Why is its transmission dependent on space and time?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby simhanada » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:39 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:By the same token I may have the intention to produce a video that allows for transmission/pointing out. When does my intention end?


The video provides the structure, not the transmission.

gregkavarnos wrote:If Dzogchen is beyond space and time, then how can its transmission be bound by space and time? Why is its transmission dependent on space and time?


The state is beyond space and time, the methods are not?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Lhasa » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:19 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
kirtu wrote:I was going to mention the intention aspect but I'm not a member of the Dzogchen Community. The intention to transmit is the vital key and the difference between actual transmission and a recording. Transmission is a dependent arising created by the intention of the Vajra Master and the receptivity of the student. As Vasubandhu stated, the realms of existence come into being through intention.

Kirt
This though still does not answer my question about intention: does intention have a use by/expiry date?

I can have the intention to build a safe road for people to drive on (for example) and so I build it. Does my intention end when the building ends? When the building starts? When people are using the safe road? ...?

By the same token I may have the intention to produce a video that allows for transmission/pointing out. When does my intention end?

If Dzogchen is beyond space and time, then how can its transmission be bound by space and time? Why is its transmission dependent on space and time?


Exactly!! I think there is a question of 'capacity' here. If you have the capacity to tune in, you get it, no matter when it was transmitted. This was my direct experience when I first viewed Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche''s videos. It may be that if you have a strong karmic link with a Teacher, it only takes contact of any kind to renew and activate that connection.
This is something I have noticed when ChNN does DI or empowerments. There is a very strong protective, sheltering energy coming from him. A ' We're not in Kansas anymore.' kind of energy. He is deliberately and consciously creating a 'safe place' for everyone participating. Maybe this is a Vajra Tent? Maybe that is why he wants the live webcast transmission....so Westerners with heads full of cotton and little good sense, don't tune into his Mindstream in a way that will fry their circuits and crash their hard drive.
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