Hell Beings

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Hell Beings

Postby Motova » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:45 pm

What exactly are the beings who supposedly torture those unfortunate beings who are born into the realms of Hell? Is that a "role" anyone can be born into? Do they enjoy torturing people? If a hell being enjoys killing endless beings in Hell, then will they be reborn to suffer the same torture they inflicted?

:namaste:

/Dylan
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby randomseb » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:56 pm

Are they perhaps, emanations of your own mind, a sort of personification of the neuroses you build up and carry along with you where ever you go like a huge mountain on your back?
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Motova » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:15 pm

randomseb wrote:Are they perhaps, emanations of your own mind, a sort of personification of the neuroses you build up and carry along with you where ever you go like a huge mountain on your back?


Perhaps, but isn't it said that one is tortured amongst others? So wouldn't that suggest that a Hell being would torture those around you as well?
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:18 pm

Where exactly is that said?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Motova » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:35 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Where exactly is that said?


I couldn't tell you... I remember I read somewhere that beings are boiled together in a pot of oil. Are you implying that each hell being has a personalized entourage of torturers?

:namaste:

/Dylan
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby KeithBC » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:01 pm

Hell, like all of samsara, is a product of your mind's delusion. Your hell is yours alone.

Om mani padme hum
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:03 pm

Mythology is to truth what notation and theory is to music, a way of describing truth. The notes themselves h ave no meaning though outside the context of describing music. They definitely aren't music itself.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby dude » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:39 pm

Motova wrote:What exactly are the beings who supposedly torture those unfortunate beings who are born into the realms of Hell? Is that a "role" anyone can be born into? Do they enjoy torturing people? If a hell being enjoys killing endless beings in Hell, then will they be reborn to suffer the same torture they inflicted?

:namaste:

/Dylan



Of course
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby randomseb » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:55 pm

Motova wrote:
randomseb wrote:Are they perhaps, emanations of your own mind, a sort of personification of the neuroses you build up and carry along with you where ever you go like a huge mountain on your back?


Perhaps, but isn't it said that one is tortured amongst others? So wouldn't that suggest that a Hell being would torture those around you as well?


The Tibetan book of the dead interpretations I've seen suggest emenations of your own mind, not sure why there'd be something as specific and westernized as everyone burning together in some pot, though!
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:24 am

They're creations of your own mind. There is traditional reasoning for it, but I forgot.

Hopefully, someone else remembers.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Motova » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:13 am

dude wrote:
Motova wrote:What exactly are the beings who supposedly torture those unfortunate beings who are born into the realms of Hell? Is that a "role" anyone can be born into? Do they enjoy torturing people? If a hell being enjoys killing endless beings in Hell, then will they be reborn to suffer the same torture they inflicted?

:namaste:

/Dylan



Of course


Image
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Alfredo » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:33 am

They're ectoplasmic demons, made from semen ejaculated by hanged men. (Wait, no, that's incubi.)

The worst fate in hell is reserved for masochists, who will cry "Beat me! Beat me!" And the demons will answer, "No!"
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby treefairy » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:12 am

well, if i remember correctly, one is faced with their wrongs upon hitting the consciousness field in chikai, where you become aware of all. Then based on that, if you did something terribly wrong, you would probably condemn yourself to something terrible.......
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby muni » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:12 am

Motova wrote:
So wouldn't that suggest that a Hell being would torture those around you as well?


Grasping/clinging tortures grasping/clinging.

:namaste:
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby dude » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:13 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Where exactly is that said?


Are you serious?

Here's just one quick example

""Then the hell-wardens torture [the evil-doer] with what's called a five-fold imprisonment. They drive a red-hot iron stake through one hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through one foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the middle of his chest. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted."
Devaduta Sutra
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby dude » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:13 pm

Motova wrote:What exactly are the beings who supposedly torture those unfortunate beings who are born into the realms of Hell? Is that a "role" anyone can be born into? Do they enjoy torturing people? If a hell being enjoys killing endless beings in Hell, then will they be reborn to suffer the same torture they inflicted?

:namaste:

/Dylan



"What exactly are the beings who supposedly torture those unfortunate beings who are born into the realms of Hell? "
They're living beings. Living beings appear in the world in accordance with their karma. Whether, they're rich, poor, tall, short, smart, stupid, have power over others, others have power over them; all that is karma. What form we are born with also karma; we could be born as humans, animals, insects....

"Is that a "role" anyone can be born into?"
Of course, if they make the cause; it's all karma.
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:24 pm

dude wrote:Are you serious?

Here's just one quick example

""Then the hell-wardens torture [the evil-doer] with what's called a five-fold imprisonment. They drive a red-hot iron stake through one hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through one foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the middle of his chest. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted."
Devaduta Sutra
Not exactly the answer I was looking for but really, I currently fail to see why I asked the question anyway... :shrug: I think I may have misread Motovas statement.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby dude » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:03 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
dude wrote:Are you serious?

Here's just one quick example

""Then the hell-wardens torture [the evil-doer] with what's called a five-fold imprisonment. They drive a red-hot iron stake through one hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through one foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the middle of his chest. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted."
Devaduta Sutra
Not exactly the answer I was looking for but really, I currently fail to say why I asked the question anyway... :shrug: I think I may have misread Motovas statement.


Oh, okay, in that case I'm sure I didn't understand the question either. But thanks for asking, it got me thinking about how to answer the opening question better.
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby dude » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:09 pm

Motova wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:Where exactly is that said?


I couldn't tell you... I remember I read somewhere that beings are boiled together in a pot of oil. Are you implying that each hell being has a personalized entourage of torturers?

:namaste:

/Dylan



Oh yeah. There's karma even in hell. Some people made the cause to be tortured, others made the cause to be torturers. There's even a King of Hell. He's in hell with everybody else, but he can do what he wants and tell everybody else what to do. Same as things are in this world. Which is to say : the conditions of Hell exist in the here and now, as do all the other realms.
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Re: Hell Beings

Postby Will » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:37 am

Did not read this all - too scary. But the Hell Wardens are projections from the minds of those being tortured. Sort of a subconscious knowledge of wrongs done and suffering due.

http://www.khandro.net/doctrine_hells.htm
Revealing one essence: this means the inherently pure, complete, luminous essence, which is pure of its own nature. -- Fa-tsang
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