Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

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Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Inge » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:41 pm

Hi.

Lately I have been overcome by severe doubts causing me to fear that I have prematurely entered the Vajrayana.

I have attended a Green Tara empowerment and a Kalachakra empowerment. Both were given without reading transmission and oral explanations.

The Kalachakra empowerment were given with the three sets of vows, but without practice commitments.

I have not been instructed properly in the specifics of the three sets of vows, and based on what I have read about these vows I suppose that I am constantly damaging them. I have not been properly instructid in how to keep the vows and how to purify broken and damaged vows.

I don't want to enter vajra hell.

I have received brief oral instructions on how to do Vajrasattva practice, and lung for one short ngondro liturgy, but not Vajrasattva empowerment. I have attended teachings where the 100-syllable mantra have been used, but don't know if this means I am allowed to recite the mantra?

I have once attended a Ngakso puja for mending of broken vows. I have the text for this puja, and also have received brief introductory instructions, but don't feel confident to do such elaborate and complicated practice on my own.

Based on this information can you tell me with certainty whether I without any danger might do Vajrasattva practice, either by a Vajrasattva sadhana or just by recitation of 100 syllable mantra?

Or do you recommend something else for me to do to help me keep and purify the vows?

Thank you.

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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby SonamZangpo » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:11 pm

The best way to get clarification on this (if you can do this) is get an interview with a Khenpo and/or Rinpoche. They are incredibly well educated and will likely be able to clarify a lot for you. Their knowledge will likely trump anyone's on here (no offense!)

Excluding that, try to find someone who went to the same empowerment by the same teacher.

Excluding THAT, go by whatever people say on here.

While I do not have experience with any of the things you mentioned, I did take White Tara empowerment in a similar way you did, with little understanding of it. However, while I'm a little fuzzy on the vows, I know one of them was to recite it at least three times a day (morning, noon, and night). To stay on the safe side for the other stuff, I'd advise not to say it until you get clarification from a lama.

Also, if the part of ngondro you were given was the prostration part, start doing that! I've heard that one prostration cleanses an entire lifetime of negative karma, and since we've had infinite lifetimes before this one... better get crackin!

Best of luck to you,

Sonam
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Dhondrub » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:24 pm

Dear Inge,
do you have an authentic Guru who is guiding you in your practice?
I think it is completely impossible to practice the Vajrayana without a Vajramaster. And as I understand it I think this is were really Samaya comes in. I dont think you have to worry much, if you havent been given an explicit recitation damtsig at the Abishekas you took then there is none.


All the very best

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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Inge » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:18 pm

SonamZangpo wrote:The best way to get clarification on this (if you can do this) is get an interview with a Khenpo and/or Rinpoche. They are incredibly well educated and will likely be able to clarify a lot for you. Their knowledge will likely trump anyone's on here (no offense!)
...

Best of luck to you,

Sonam


Thanks Sonam.

It will probably be until next spring or summer before the Rinpoches who gave the initiations visit my part of the earth again, but I suppose I might send them a email asking for clarification. Don't know if they have the time to answer email though.
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Inge » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:25 pm

Dhondrub wrote:Dear Inge,
do you have an authentic Guru who is guiding you in your practice?
I think it is completely impossible to practice the Vajrayana without a Vajramaster. And as I understand it I think this is were really Samaya comes in. I dont think you have to worry much, if you havent been given an explicit recitation damtsig at the Abishekas you took then there is none.


All the very best

Tashi


Thank you Dhondrup.

I don't have the understanding to evaluate a Gurus authenticity.

I don't have a relationship with a Guru that I consider myself a student of.

Isn't the Vajramaster who confers the empowerment automathicly ones Guru?

I don't understand the Guru-student relationship.

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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby ratna » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:41 pm

I don't think you have anything to worry about. You have the lung for the ngondro. That most likely has Vajrasattva and Guru yoga, which are sufficient for maintaining and repairing samaya. Receiving a highest yoga tantra initiation such as Kalachakra should also be sufficient for Vajrasattva practice, as far as I know.

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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby kirtu » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:05 pm

Inge wrote:Hi.

Lately I have been overcome by severe doubts causing me to fear that I have prematurely entered the Vajrayana.

I have attended a Green Tara empowerment and a Kalachakra empowerment. Both were given without reading transmission and oral explanations.


You can take them (consider them now, after the empowerment) to have been blessings rather than an engagement / commitment to practice. You can however still recite the mantras if you wish.

I have not been instructed properly in the specifics of the three sets of vows, and based on what I have read about these vows I suppose that I am constantly damaging them. I have not been properly instructid in how to keep the vows and how to purify broken and damaged vows.


I think it was Atisha who aid that he held his outer Mahayana vows perfectly but was constantly, daily violating his Vajrayana vows. Vajra hell is not really such an easy place to get to unless you really know what you have gotten into and then consciously violate them. If you are concerned then this means that you have heard of the seriousness of tantra (which is true) AND that you are considering yourself a person who has committed to practice. But you said that the Vajramaster(s) didn't given commitments. So it's up to you. The main thing is to hold Bodhicitta and compassion for all beings. Then whether you do any formal practice or not, you will be okay. If you want, recite the Vajrasattva mantra when you like (this is true if you consider those empowerments to have been blessings - if you assume some level of commitment in your mind it would be best to recite Vajrasattva daily). Anyone who has taken an empowerment, even just as a blessing can recite Vajrasattva (yes I know there are empowerments and lungs for Vajrasattva but these are really to solidify the blessing and empowerment of Vajrasattva for people engaging in serious practice - and anyway, as noted, you almost certainly got the lung as part of the ngondro lung you received). Actually, like Tara mantra, Vajrasattva mantra is so open and widespread (in Tibetan Buddhist circles) and really anyone with faith in the Triple Gem can recite them.

I have once attended a Ngakso puja for mending of broken vows. I have the text for this puja, and also have received brief introductory instructions, but don't feel confident to do such elaborate and complicated practice on my own.


Keep it for later if you like.

Or do you recommend something else for me to do to help me keep and purify the vows?


There's always the Three Heap Sutra that anyone can do.

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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Heruka » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:42 pm

Inge wrote:
Based on this information can you tell me with certainty whether I without any danger might do Vajrasattva practice, either by a Vajrasattva sadhana or just by recitation of 100 syllable mantra?

Or do you recommend something else for me to do to help me keep and purify the vows?

Thank you.

Inge



Of course you can recite dorje sempa, absolutley.

telling you with certainty.
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Dhondrub » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:52 pm

Inge wrote:
Dhondrub wrote:Dear Inge,
do you have an authentic Guru who is guiding you in your practice?
I think it is completely impossible to practice the Vajrayana without a Vajramaster. And as I understand it I think this is were really Samaya comes in. I dont think you have to worry much, if you havent been given an explicit recitation damtsig at the Abishekas you took then there is none.


All the very best

Tashi


Thank you Dhondrup.

I don't have the understanding to evaluate a Gurus authenticity.

I don't have a relationship with a Guru that I consider myself a student of.

Isn't the Vajramaster who confers the empowerment automathicly ones Guru?

I don't understand the Guru-student relationship.

Inge



Dear Inge,
in my Kagyu/Nyingma understanding there is no Vajrayana without a real Guru-disciple relationship. And this also seems to be where Samaya begins to matter.

As Kirtu said if you been to a public Empowerment you can just see it as a blessing.
Reciting the Vajrasattva Mantra is a practice you can do without an empowerment. Here is a link with a nice outer Vajrasattva practice and teachings on the practice by Dzogchen Pönlop Rinpoche: http://www.prayer4peace.net/practice.html

All the very best

Tashi
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby heart » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:11 pm

Inge wrote:Hi.

Lately I have been overcome by severe doubts causing me to fear that I have prematurely entered the Vajrayana.

I have attended a Green Tara empowerment and a Kalachakra empowerment. Both were given without reading transmission and oral explanations.

The Kalachakra empowerment were given with the three sets of vows, but without practice commitments.

I have not been instructed properly in the specifics of the three sets of vows, and based on what I have read about these vows I suppose that I am constantly damaging them. I have not been properly instructid in how to keep the vows and how to purify broken and damaged vows.

I don't want to enter vajra hell.

I have received brief oral instructions on how to do Vajrasattva practice, and lung for one short ngondro liturgy, but not Vajrasattva empowerment. I have attended teachings where the 100-syllable mantra have been used, but don't know if this means I am allowed to recite the mantra?

I have once attended a Ngakso puja for mending of broken vows. I have the text for this puja, and also have received brief introductory instructions, but don't feel confident to do such elaborate and complicated practice on my own.

Based on this information can you tell me with certainty whether I without any danger might do Vajrasattva practice, either by a Vajrasattva sadhana or just by recitation of 100 syllable mantra?

Or do you recommend something else for me to do to help me keep and purify the vows?

Thank you.

Inge


Don't worry, there is nothing to worry about. If you are interested just study Vajrayana with a qualified teacher. Since you done the Nagkso puja I think it is very possible that you met at least one. If you want you do some Vajrasattva, but don't fret about it do it be cause you believe in doing it.

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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Pero » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:29 pm

Inge wrote:Isn't the Vajramaster who confers the empowerment automathicly ones Guru?


Yes.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby SonamZangpo » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:47 pm

Inge wrote:
Thank you Dhondrup.

I don't have the understanding to evaluate a Gurus authenticity.

I don't have a relationship with a Guru that I consider myself a student of.

Isn't the Vajramaster who confers the empowerment automathicly ones Guru?

I don't understand the Guru-student relationship.

Inge


When you take refuge in the three jewels, "Buddha" is also symbolic of your guru. Vajrayana is largely Realization-based, and those things cannot be attained intellectually. Therefor, only those who are realized are those you should seek to teach you things concerning actual realizations and practice. In Vajrayana it is taught over and over again to have unwaivering devotion to your guru. However, they also stress it is essential to have an authentic guru, because otherwise you will wind up in a lot of trouble.

Also, if you are lacking a guru, you can make some lineage master your guru. You are supposed to pray for your guru's blessing often. In times where I am not thinking about a specific guru, I pray to Milarepa, myself. If you pray to a lineage holder as your guru in the way many pray to their guru they see and visit, you will receive the blessings of your lineage every single time.

As far as practicing a mantra to help, go with the Mani mantra. It is said the Mani mantra has the power that even in practicing just that, you can become enlightened.
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby plwk » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:47 am

Pero wrote:
Inge wrote:Isn't the Vajramaster who confers the empowerment automathicly ones Guru?


Yes.

But that does not mean that h/she, the Vajramaster is one's root guru right?
Otherwise, I cannot imagine if one goes for 101 empowerments, one will have 101 root gurus... :popcorn:
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Heruka » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:43 am

lol

one must not decide on a root guru, this is a mistake, also one must not choose root guru because one feels some type of vibration in presense, again this is a mistake. a descision is an arrived at thought, a feeling, will pass with time and so on, then one is bound with regret. not good seed for practice, i saw my root guru today and heart lept with joy!


taking tantric empowerments (tantra traces back to sri lanka) is your opening to vajrayana, symbolically one is going through a rebirthing purification ritual of an elitist indian prince or king, all can be subsumed, thankfully into guru yoga, all are one aspect of a white vajrasattva like different rainbow colours in spectrum of light from white light, there is no conflict between this and that, one must be careful however with protectors, try not to mix with buddhist schools this protector, with another lineage etc, reason being they are bound by pledges to keep certain teachings from degeneration, and fooling around with that is not so good.
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby plwk » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:45 am

I don't have the understanding to evaluate a Gurus authenticity.
I don't have a relationship with a Guru that I consider myself a student of.
Isn't the Vajramaster who confers the empowerment automathicly ones Guru?
I don't understand the Guru-student relationship.

50 Verses Of Guru Devotion
And....I found this book quite handy, especially when I see a crossroad now in my path and am still deciding..

Image

Available from here
One review here
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Pero » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:31 pm

plwk wrote:But that does not mean that h/she, the Vajramaster is one's root guru right?
Otherwise, I cannot imagine if one goes for 101 empowerments, one will have 101 root gurus... :popcorn:


Right haha. :smile:
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby kirtu » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:22 pm

plwk wrote:
Pero wrote:
Inge wrote:Isn't the Vajramaster who confers the empowerment automathicly ones Guru?


Yes.

But that does not mean that h/she, the Vajramaster is one's root guru right?
Otherwise, I cannot imagine if one goes for 101 empowerments, one will have 101 root gurus... :popcorn:


I think Atisha had over 100 gurus. However the root guru is the guru who triggered enlightenment, or from whom one realized the nature of mind, or a guru from whom one has taken a highest yoga tantra empowerment. Once can have more than one root guru. In Atisha's case his main guru was the guru in Indonesia from whom Atisha really learned Bodhicitta.

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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:54 am

I don't know

Deviates from point I'd guess,..... but if there are sentient beings in this vajra hell.....what better place to practice dharma? The worst of hells....would they not need a kind word there most?..Seems so. If one is all alone....then who to torment but I myself?
And if I myself the tormenter.....they why the fear?
Are we not here ourselves our tormentors?

Was the buddha himself not once a hell beast of sorts, killed by blow to head. As I being but a flea on a sandle a budddha may wear....I may then be in some respect.....be as a buddha was....in hell realm?

So if broken samaya I. Send me quickly there. If compassionate word may be spoken there I will. If not I will not.
Easily said I guess....or is easly said easily said..... I don't know.

To point....
I would guess one could not violate samaya without looseing spiritual intent, the two are intwined. So the only absolute verification of this thing of broken samaya would be in that....do I have lost spiritual intent?
Certainly in this situation discribed....that is not so. Absolutely not. I would say all that have lost spiritual intent do not care that they have done such a thing. Asking about such a thing by the asking infers spiritual intent, and only that.

So that could not happen as described in the initial post. Vajrasattava practice.....a excellent choice in any regard.
I can't find the specific reference(it would take hours) but HHDL has stated to my recollection if one for some reason or other can't do a entire practice one has committed to, say a daily or monthly practice... do at least part, the visualization of oneself as diety. That will prevent fault. That is what I have heard.
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby SonamZangpo » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:04 am

ronnewmexico wrote:I don't know

Deviates from point I'd guess,..... but if there are sentient beings in this vajra hell.....what better place to practice dharma? The worst of hells....would they not need a kind word there most?..Seems so. If one is all alone....then who to torment but I myself?
And if I myself the tormenter.....they why the fear?
Are we not here ourselves our tormentors?

Was the buddha himself not once a hell beast of sorts, killed by blow to head. As I being but a flea on a sandle a budddha may wear....I may then be in some respect.....be as a buddha was....in hell realm?

So if broken samaya I. Send me quickly there. If compassionate word may be spoken there I will. If not I will not.
Easily said I guess....or is easly said easily said..... I don't know.

To point....
I would guess one could not violate samaya without looseing spiritual intent, the two are intwined. So the only absolute verification of this thing of broken samaya would be in that....do I have lost spiritual intent?
Certainly in this situation discribed....that is not so. Absolutely not. I would say all that have lost spiritual intent do not care that they have done such a thing. Asking about such a thing by the asking infers spiritual intent, and only that.

So that could not happen as described in the initial post. Vajrasattava practice.....a excellent choice in any regard.
I can't find the specific reference(it would take hours) but HHDL has stated to my recollection if one for some reason or other can't do a entire practice one has committed to, say a daily or monthly practice... do at least part, the visualization of oneself as diety. That will prevent fault. That is what I have heard.


In order to be of any benefit to those in the hell realms, you'd likely need to be a Bodhisattva, otherwise you would spend a lot of time being tortured and having your tongue ripped out. But with attainments, you can go team up with Ksitigarbah and help him empty all hells! :D

Actually, a friend was telling me a story the other day, since I had said once I reached my attainments I would want to go to the hell realms in the following lifetimes, and he said there was an instance where someone intended to do just that, but had generated such great merit in being devoted to that, that he was reborn in a heaven, to his own dismay.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe vajra hell is reserved for those breaking their vows for things like Highest Yoga Tantra and things like that, yes?
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Re: Regarding practice for purification of damaged samaya

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:13 am

Inge,

The principle samaya is to have respect for the vajramasters that have bestowed empowerment upon one. Also vital is training in bodhicitta. Then, in general, the distilled essence of keeping all one's samayas is to train in the view of all appearances, sound, and thoughts as the three vajras. Now, you may not be familiar with what the three vajras means, and you are not yet very knowledgeable about how to practice Vajrayana... Well, the teachings say that we cannot break vows which we don't yet understand or have the capacity to accomplish, and we all started just where you now are. If you were to look at a customary presentation of the highest yoga tantra samayas, you'd see that there are samayas to accomplish all kinds of things we can only now aspire to. So what do we do? We make aspirational prayers, we try to create the causes to study with a competent, qualified lama, and we train in what we're able to: making sure to always maintain respect for the lamas who gave us empowerment, training to always have compassion for sentient beings and the wish to help them all attain liberation, and training our way toward equanimity toward close ones and not-so-close ones. We train in bodhisattva-like conduct, such as the 6 paramitas. Most important to understand is that the principle of samaya is not that one is supposed to become perfect the instant one receives empowerment and takes vows. It is a training. Generally speaking, you only damage the samayas in proportion to your capacity to uphold them. Also, generally speaking, there are at least 4 parts to a fully broken vow, including samaya, and one generally has to pretty deliberately break most of them. Anyway, again, what we do is train in what we know how to train in now, and make aspirations and attempts to create the causes to be able to learn further from a qualified lama in the future.

Now, you've been given the lung for a ngondro. A perfectly fine way to guard and purify your vows would be to do that daily. Most ngondros are very straightforward and would be hard to make important mistakes with. Plus, there are translations of commentaries on many of the most popular ngondro liturgies. Receiving the lung for a ngondro necessarily means a lung for the Vajrasattva practice within it, so that would be an excellent practice. It is said that reciting at least 21 of the long Vajrasattva mantra at the end of the day (with single-pointed concentration and the four powers) is powerful enough to purify whatever damages or breakages to one's samaya that day. Also, as soon as you catch yourself doing/thinking/saying something unwholesome, the sooner you confess it and do the recitation, the easier it is to purify, so you can go somewhere private and quietly, briefly recite a few Vajrasattvas as soon after as you're able, and then do a thorough Vajrasattva practice (or the whole ngondro, depending on your desire and time) before bed. So, no need to worry.

And yes, all lamas who bestow empowerment on you are vajramasters, but this does not mean you are obligated to become their disciple. You consider them as an extremely kind, noble teacher to you (because even if they just bestow the empowerment upon you and little else, the seeds for complete realization are indelibly planted in your mindstream to eventually blossom) and try to view them purely and respectfully. But eventually, when you come to feel that a particular lama (or lamas) has really been fundamental to you gaining some personal experience and knowledge of your true nature, that will be your root lama and you'll have no doubt. Usually at some time before that, through our experiences of receiving teachings and guidance from one or more lamas over some time, we come to particularly appreciate and trust a certain lama who's way of teaching and apparent knowledge and wisdom resonates with us and upon who we principally rely.
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