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Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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manas
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby manas » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:14 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

alan
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby alan » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:22 am

What we need is a leader. Someone who can speak with authority, and focus the message effectively.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:24 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:25 am


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Anagarika
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby Anagarika » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:27 am

To my mind, Gombrich's lecture is really him just pointing out the elephant in the room.

Ajahn Brahm made the comment once in an interview, to the effect that "we have the best product. (he was speaking of religions and spiritual instruction). We need to promote it." I am paraphrasing what Ven. Ajahn Brahm said. Ajahn Brahm may be speaking of, and he himself representative of, the emergence of a modern Theravada...firmly wedded to the orthooxy, but not afraid to venture forth into the world, and share and promote, and indeed act with engagement, through what is known in the Tipitaka.

I live in the US. In this country, Zen has a foothold due to its emergence during the 1960's the time of the beat poets, the hippies, the Kerouacs and the Ginsburgs. Motorcycle Maintenance. Vajrayana took hold through the evangelism of the misogynist and alcoholic (sorry) Chogyam Trungpa, who brough "crazy wisdom," and other forms of tantric and ecstatic ' Buddhism.'

What did Theravada have to present? Theravada really didn't come to America. Rather, folks like Jack Kornfield went to Thailand and lived with the snakes, the scorpions, one meal a day of boiled frog soup, and Ajahn Chah. Theravadins like Dr. Kornfield and Ajahn Brahm came back to the West, and have somewhat quietly illuminated the field.

Zen offers flower arranging, kyudo, and anything cool or trendy has a "Zen flavor." Vajrayana offers Green Tara and tantra. Theravada is a steaming bowl of boiled tree frogs. :)

Well, being trendy and Zenny doe snot bring us closer to Dhama, and tantra may be fun, but it's not Dhamma, either.

What Theravada needs to do is what Ajahn Brahm is doing...break out of the mold a bit, offend some of the hierarchy, tell some jokes, engage with people, and really make an effort to help people understand that that the boiled down form of Buddhism, the Tipitaka, holds the key to freedom from suffering.

If Richard G needs any inspiration for what the solution may be to the problems he raisis in his fine lecture, one example of the path forward is Ajahn Brahm. There needs to be more like him.

alan
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby alan » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:38 am

Nice analysis, and I like you style, soup.
But I can live without A.B.'s dumb jokes. They tend to be juvenile. Don't see him as a leader.

alan
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby alan » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:47 am

Tilt,
While I'm sure you're right that a charismatic personal leader can be problematic, we are so lost now that just about anything would help. There is no face to Therevada, no one who speaks for it, and no organizing central principle. We are wandering and disorganized.

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Ben
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby Ben » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:08 am

Hi all,
For me personally, I think Bhikkhu Bodhi is an excellent international role model. There is more to him than scholar and translator.

http://www.buddhistglobalrelief.org/main.html

kind regrds,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

chownah
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby chownah » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:12 am

Last edited by chownah on Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:13 am


Gena1480
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby Gena1480 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:21 am

i have read this paper
and i really don't understand what is the point.
what are his question? about Theravada
is his questions about discipline of monks?
is his questions about the Dhamma?
is his questions about the practice?
what are his main questions.
correct if i'm wrong
but he is saying that Theravada is spreading in wrong way/or to slow
or his main point that Theravada should engage in worldly affairs
Theravada has a selling product its called insight meditation about the Suffering
the selling product is 4 noble truth, which cant be sold.

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mikenz66
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:12 am


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daverupa
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:03 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:03 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:09 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:26 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:17 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:35 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:47 pm

1. No one said anything about demands, so that's a straw man.
2. The word "heinous" was not suggesting heinous events, it was denoting that no one cultural/national example was worse than another.
3. And the problem is not whether they can be asked or not.

These are all red herrings, alas.

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mikenz66
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Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:59 pm



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