How they choose the Dalai Lama?

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How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby someone235 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:14 pm

Hey,
Can someone please describe to me what is the exact process in which the Tibetans choose the Dalai Lama?
I understood that when they want to test a boy, they give him some objects, and if he picks the deceased Dalai Lama's objects, it means that he's the reincarnation of him. You know how many objects are shown to him? You know how many corrects answers he has to has if he want to "pass" the test?
Thanks in advance
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby byamspa » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:36 pm

someone235 wrote:Hey,
Can someone please describe to me what is the exact process in which the Tibetans choose the Dalai Lama?
I understood that when they want to test a boy, they give him some objects, and if he picks the deceased Dalai Lama's objects, it means that he's the reincarnation of him. You know how many objects are shown to him? You know how many corrects answers he has to has if he want to "pass" the test?
Thanks in advance


Needing help with your homework, eh?
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Namgyal » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:48 pm

State Religious Affairs Bureau Order No.5.'...an important move to institutionalize management on reincarnation of living Buddhas. The selection of reincarnates must preserve national unity and solidarity of all ethnic groups and the selection process cannot be influenced by any group or individual from outside the country...' :crazy:
http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/753- ... ncarnation
Last edited by Namgyal on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby someone235 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:49 pm

byamspa wrote:
someone235 wrote:Hey,
Can someone please describe to me what is the exact process in which the Tibetans choose the Dalai Lama?
I understood that when they want to test a boy, they give him some objects, and if he picks the deceased Dalai Lama's objects, it means that he's the reincarnation of him. You know how many objects are shown to him? You know how many corrects answers he has to has if he want to "pass" the test?
Thanks in advance


Needing help with your homework, eh?

Just curious
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby tingdzin » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:42 pm

The procedure you mentioned is the one that was followed last time. Given that the Dalai Lama's influence has historically been great in parts of Asia, there have been various other methods suggested or tried, including drawing lots from a golden vase. In the distant past, there has even been controversy over whether the folks in charge got the right one. For details, there are plenty of sources in English that you could track down and read.
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:02 pm

Glenn Mullin "The Fourteen Dalai Lamas" would be a good starting point.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Caz » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:40 pm

Namgyal wrote:State Religious Affairs Bureau Order No.5.'...an important move to institutionalize management on reincarnation of living Buddhas. The selection of reincarnates must preserve national unity and solidarity of all ethnic groups and the selection process cannot be influenced by any group or individual from outside the country...' :crazy:
http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/753- ... ncarnation


That sounds like political abuse of the Tulku system.
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby kirtu » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:43 pm

Caz wrote:
Namgyal wrote:State Religious Affairs Bureau Order No.5.'...an important move to institutionalize management on reincarnation of living Buddhas. The selection of reincarnates must preserve national unity and solidarity of all ethnic groups and the selection process cannot be influenced by any group or individual from outside the country...' :crazy:
http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/753- ... ncarnation


That sounds like political abuse of the Tulku system.


Quite right. The PRC is officially going to try to regulate tulku recognition in China.

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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Caz » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:14 pm

kirtu wrote:
Caz wrote:
Namgyal wrote:State Religious Affairs Bureau Order No.5.'...an important move to institutionalize management on reincarnation of living Buddhas. The selection of reincarnates must preserve national unity and solidarity of all ethnic groups and the selection process cannot be influenced by any group or individual from outside the country...' :crazy:
http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/753- ... ncarnation


That sounds like political abuse of the Tulku system.


Quite right. The PRC is officially going to try to regulate tulku recognition in China.

Kirt


Very sad, Better to abandon recognition as a public affair and keep it as a very private one. Let the quality of a Dharma teacher speak through their actions.
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:01 am

It's a little difficult to make the choice for the figurehead of an entire nation a casual affair conducted over tea and biscuits.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Caz » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:09 am

gregkavarnos wrote:It's a little difficult to make the choice for the figurehead of an entire nation a casual affair conducted over tea and biscuits.


True, But do you think it would be better of for Dharma in the long run if it was separated from such worldly concerns ? Hand the politics to the Sikyong !
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:18 am

You know very well that the Dalai Lama has handed a large proportion of his political power over to the government in exile and has publicly stated that he will not be incarnating again (ie the political and religious office of the Dalai Lama will end). But this is kind of irrelevant because it is impossible to seperate religion from politics mainly because religious institutions have an influence over the public/social sphere and thus (defacto) influence the political sphere. Of course one can reduce DIRECT involvement in politics but one cannot erase the effect of religious institutions on politics.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby conebeckham » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:45 pm

It's a fantasy to think politics can be separated from any social situation, including religious institutions.
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby conebeckham » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:49 pm

...and it's not definitively stated by HHDL that he won't reappear in some form...as far as I know. He said he wouldn't come back in China, though...that, I believe, is definitive.
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Namgyal » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:49 pm

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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby practitioner » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:32 am

conebeckham wrote:...and it's not definitively stated by HHDL that he won't reappear in some form...as far as I know. He said he wouldn't come back in China, though...that, I believe, is definitive.


Yes, he said he would not reincarnate in The PRC borders (Tibet included) NOT that he wouldn't reincarnate or the Dalai Lama line will end with himself. Whatever happens though I am positive that he will continue to selflessly guide wandering beings to liberation no matter what means necessary.
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby justsit » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:45 pm

He also said he could reincarnate as a (gasp) woman:

"Female Dalai Lama (is) possible because in Tibet tradition, among the high women, reincarnation is there, I think there is the 700-800-year-old Dorjee Phagmo institution which is for female reincarnation...so, there is no religious connotation that religious leader must be male.

"If circumstances are such that female reincarnation is more effective to people, then, logically it should be female," he said.

Queried if he would one day take the form of a woman reincarnation, he replied: "I personally don't know."

In the same interview, he said he would reincarnate "in a free country."
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:46 pm

conebeckham wrote:...and it's not definitively stated by HHDL that he won't reappear in some form...as far as I know.
Maybe I misinterpreted his statements. Please excuse my slip.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: How they choose the Dalai Lama?

Postby michaelb » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:13 pm

I don't think you were that wrong, Greg. HH Dalai Lama has said he may be the last Dalai Lama, if the majority of Tibetans think the position has no relevance. His Holiness may be the last one. I pray he will be with us for many many more years to come and never leave us.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18568717
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