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Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Ben
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:36 am

Thanks Geoff,
That seems to suggest that the discursive thinking is part of Jhana (as per the texts you have cited). My question, originally to Retro, if that is so - what does that mean in actual practice? How does one maintain vitakka and vicara and not subside into papanca?
Thanks again,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Nyana
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Nyana » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:24 am


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Ben
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:44 am

Thanks again, Geoff

If I may ask another question...

Say, a practitioner take vitakka and vicara to mean initial application and sustained application of the mind on the object of meditation. And that same practitioner experiences a silencing of mind until no discursive thought it present.

What do you think is going on?

kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Nyana » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:13 am


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Ben
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:19 am

I don't know Geoff.
I started this thread following a comment that Retro made - as captured in the OP. As it is very different from my own understanding and experience of samatha practice, I merely wished to explore the difference. With the aim of developing my understanding of the experience of others. If I can develop my understanding of another's experience then perhaps it will help me to better understand their point of view more generally. I'm not interested in debate or positioning myself or anything other than having an exchange on practice and experience with the aim of understanding that of others....And maybe my own as well.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:28 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:32 am


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Ben
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:37 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Nyana » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:38 am


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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:43 am

Thank you, Geoff!
Its time for me to meditate.
with metta,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Nyana » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:45 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:52 am


Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Nyana » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:00 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:03 am


User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:50 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

sublime
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:08 am

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby sublime » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:20 pm

The Buddha explains these in Anapanasati Sutta, "breathing in sensitive to pleasure," etc.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:23 pm


sublime
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:08 am

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby sublime » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:04 pm


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tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
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Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:31 pm


sublime
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:08 am

Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice

Postby sublime » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:35 pm



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