Nonregression of Bodhisattvas

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6997
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Nonregression of Bodhisattvas

Post by kirtu »

From Book 2, Kongtrul' Encylopedia, "1. Our Teacher's Path to Awakening", "Bodhisattvas' Levels of Capability":
A bodhisattva of a high degree of acumen does not regress after the first time he or she develops the supreme mind of awakening; a bodhisattva of average acumen does not regress after attainment of awakening’s first stage; one of lesser acumen, at the eighth stage. These are the three points [after which bodhisattvas] no longer regress. One teaching even states that those of very low acumen [no longer regress after the attainment of ] awakening’s ninth stage. These categories are based upon distinctions in capability.
WOW! Shakyamuni belongs to the first category. This is expounded upon in Dharmamitra's "Commentary on the Perfection of Sublime Insight. (does this exist in translation?)." This is quite different from the standard teaching that states that a bodhisattva does not regress after attaining the Path of Seeing (1st bhumi). To be able to regress even if one is one the higher bhumi's is stunning.

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
TaTa
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:15 am

Re: Nonregression of Bodhisattvas

Post by TaTa »

This is more in tune with what we see with tulkus
Andrew108
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Nonregression of Bodhisattvas

Post by Andrew108 »

kirtu wrote:From Book 2, Kongtrul' Encylopedia, "1. Our Teacher's Path to Awakening", "Bodhisattvas' Levels of Capability":
A bodhisattva of a high degree of acumen does not regress after the first time he or she develops the supreme mind of awakening; a bodhisattva of average acumen does not regress after attainment of awakening’s first stage; one of lesser acumen, at the eighth stage. These are the three points [after which bodhisattvas] no longer regress. One teaching even states that those of very low acumen [no longer regress after the attainment of ] awakening’s ninth stage. These categories are based upon distinctions in capability.
WOW! Shakyamuni belongs to the first category. This is expounded upon in Dharmamitra's "Commentary on the Perfection of Sublime Insight. (does this exist in translation?)." This is quite different from the standard teaching that states that a bodhisattva does not regress after attaining the Path of Seeing (1st bhumi). To be able to regress even if one is one the higher bhumi's is stunning.

Kirt
It would be a merit issue right? Something about the purity of the wish to benefit beings.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6997
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Nonregression of Bodhisattvas

Post by kirtu »

Andrew108 wrote:
kirtu wrote:From Book 2, Kongtrul' Encylopedia, "1. Our Teacher's Path to Awakening", "Bodhisattvas' Levels of Capability":
A bodhisattva of a high degree of acumen...These categories are based upon distinctions in capability.
It would be a merit issue right? Something about the purity of the wish to benefit beings.
As stated in the translation it seems to be a matter of actual capability in discernment and/or insight. In the introduction, the author (Ngawang Zangpo, Hugh Leslie Thompson, an attendant of Kalu Rinpoche for many years) stresses that Kalu Rinpoche wanted as much as possible a direct translation from Tibetan to English so the selection of the word "acumen" was no accident.

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8883
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Nonregression of Bodhisattvas

Post by Astus »

The question is regression to what. When it is taught that bodhisattvas on the 8th bhumi don't fall back, it means leaving behind the possibility of becoming an arhat. Non-regression on the 1st bhumi means guaranteed liberation, either as a sravaka or as a buddha. Not falling back from the initial awakening of bodhicitta means maintaining the determination to enlightenment and not leaving behind the path of liberation completely by rejecting the Three Jewels. This is probably different from how Kongtrul understood the issue.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Andrew108
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Nonregression of Bodhisattvas

Post by Andrew108 »

Bodhisattvas on the eighth level don't fall back because they no longer have a sense of 'duration'. The seventh consciousness no longer functions whereas for boddhisatvas on 'lower' levels there still is a subtle grasping. For them there is something like an afflicted consciousness that sees the alaya's 'duration' as a subtle non-self? I would imagine that regression is possible in relation to 'non-self' becoming more evident i.e seeing a duration to non-self.
There is also the reach of a bodhisattvas aspiration to take into account and which if great enough (in terms of merit) would include the going beyond ideas of duration or even 4th time. 4th time here being an afflicted grasping of 'timeless' Alaya. There is still not a total integration so there is the possibility of change. I wonder if holding onto a 'non-self' can also be part of the a greater motivation of not realizing buddhahood until all beings are in that state? So that rebirth and regression becomes possible because of fixating on non-self for the benefit of beings. Gets complicated right?
Edited for clarity.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”