Tibetan situation and petition

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Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Madeliaette » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:39 pm

NB: This might only be of interest to those members who practice Tibetan Buddhism:

I have been following very closely the situation of the latest monastery to be subjected to Chinese intimidation within Tibet and would like to ask any members that feel that way inclined to please check out the following petition that a friend of mine created earlier today as her part of trying to help this situation:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/182/873/ ... -in-tibet/
and/or to pray for the monks involved (details of the recent events as they occurred over the past 7-10 days can be tracked at the following blog - http://tibet.justice.overblog.com/ )

:namaste:
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Thrasymachus » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:42 pm

Yes, personally buy enough goods from China to help make them the second largest world exporter behind only Germany, but also sign a tepid online petition. That will show the CCP regime!

That you don't care...
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby justsit » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:01 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:Yes, personally buy enough goods from China to help make them the second largest world exporter behind only Germany, but also sign a tepid online petition. That will show the CCP regime!

That you don't care...


You have no idea what others do or don't buy. Or what others do or don't care about.

At least Madeliaette is making an effort for positive change.
Cynicism rarely changes anything.
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby kirtu » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:16 pm

justsit wrote:You have no idea what others do or don't buy. Or what others do or don't care about.


Almost every consumer good that we buy is made in China. Very little relatively speaking is manufactured in the US or in Western countries (esp. clothing).

We should indeed boycott China's exports but the question is how? Their goods have flooded the markets.

At least Madeliaette is making an effort for positive change.
Cynicism rarely changes anything.


That's true - and cynicism is acidic, changes nothing for the better and degrades relationships and our minds.

But he's right that the Chinese will not care or listen, at least not right now.

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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Yudron » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:00 pm

I generally avoid goods from China, if you can trust the labels. Most of the time it is not that difficult. I'm sure it has no political impact, but I feel better.
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby kirtu » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Yudron wrote:I generally avoid goods from China, if you can trust the labels. Most of the time it is not that difficult.


I find it nearly impossible to avoid Chinese made stuff.

I'm sure it has no political impact, but I feel better.


If we organized a boycott, it would have an impact.

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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby uan » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:38 pm

kirtu wrote:We should indeed boycott China's exports

Kirt


Why? are there extensive examples around the world and in world history that shows boycotts work?

Change, real change, usually comes from the inside.

Or is the act of boycotting, not just China, but in support of "the right thing" (e.g., a person may decide to boycott Japanese products while Japan continues to support the hunting of whales) a form of following a personal precept that's separate from any outcome?

I guess the question is, do we boycott to change someone else, or boycott to be internally consistent with our own personal views of what is right? (I know I'm not phrasing the last part very well)

kirtu wrote:
At least Madeliaette is making an effort for positive change.
Cynicism rarely changes anything.


That's true - and cynicism is acidic, changes nothing for the better and degrades relationships and our minds.

But he's right that the Chinese will not care or listen, at least not right now.

Kirt



I'd be a bit more precise and say "the Chinese government".

If I were to hazard a guess about what the Chinese government really cares about, or what would metaphorically have them waking up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, I'd say it's that the country will be ripped apart by a massive revolt of the have nots (not just the ethnic minorities, but the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Han Chinese) - those who are not participating in the economic boom, and in fact, whose lives are substantially worse because of the current economy.

Considering Chinese history, even over the last 150 years, this is not an unreasonable fear.
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:47 pm

Boycotting Chinese goods will not change anything. At the last count US foreign debt to China stood at 8% of the total US public debt and 26% of the foreign holdings of US public debt. About 1.2 trillion dollars.

Living in America is (basically) tantamount to funding the Chinese government. China wouldn't give a rat ass if a few Americans stopped buying long life brand egg noodles.
long life brand egg noodles.jpg
long life brand egg noodles.jpg (24.39 KiB) Viewed 560 times
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby justsit » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:46 pm

There's a prayer often used in addiction programs that goes,

"God grant me (or alternatively, May I have) the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can change,
And the wisdom to know the difference."

Ultimately, all any of us can change is ourselves.
Which is why we practice, yes?
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:51 pm

justsit wrote:Ultimately, all any of us can change is ourselves.
Which is why we practice, yes?
Naaaaaah!!! I do it for the sexy chicks, the money and the gold plated bentleys! :tongue:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby justsit » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:33 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Naaaaaah!!! I do it for the sexy chicks, the money and the gold plated bentleys! :tongue:


So, Greg, how's that workin' for ya? :rolling:
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby kirtu » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:50 pm

uan wrote:
kirtu wrote:We should indeed boycott China's exports

Kirt


Why? are there extensive examples around the world and in world history that shows boycotts work?


Yes although it depends on what you mean by "extensive" and "works": India 1920's-1945, Myanmar 1988-present (depending of course), the loss of slave labor to the North 1850's-1865 (US Civil War), the boycott of South Africa starting in the 1980's (really starting earlier).

Change, real change, usually comes from the inside.

That's true but boycotts have aided policy makers in their decisions to compromise with the opposition usually after many years.

China-Japan -
you are correct that boycotts have difficulty producing an effect and Japan, even after a 20 yr economic Depression, is rich. "Save the Whales" unfortunately did not work in the 70's-90's but it helped add ecological consciousness to the culture.

I guess the question is, do we boycott to change someone else, or boycott to be internally consistent with our own personal views of what is right? (I know I'm not phrasing the last part very well)


We boycott to effect change. It would also help if the Tibetans did their part but they are utterly divorced from the realities of world consciousness (they need to field several soccer and other spots teams so that ordinary people know they exist but they view that as completely subsidiary to the struggle for autonomy and cultural survival).

I'd be a bit more precise and say "the Chinese government".

Nope, not just. There are many nationalist Chinese who will brook no criticism of any kind even amoungst the Oversea's Chinese.

If I were to hazard a guess about what the Chinese government really cares about, or what would metaphorically have them waking up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, I'd say it's that the country will be ripped apart by a massive revolt of the have nots (not just the ethnic minorities, but the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Han Chinese) - ....


That is correct. A loss of income, coupled with a spotlight on their human rights record could give them pause. Or set the stage for a Chinese Gorbachev (of course they had one and he was "retired").

Kirt
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby uan » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:59 am

kirtu wrote:...



thanks for your responses.

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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Madeliaette » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:43 pm

There are other additional ways to act of course - i already refuse to buy Chinese products if there are any alternatives. There is also a growing number of everyday Chinese people who do not like what their Govt does, but who will not stand up to them. Maybe if enough of them band together there will be a change. I simply cannot bear to sit back and do nothing for a race of people whose religion has given my life meaning. My friend feels likewise, which is why she created the petition. I guess I feel extra connected as i know people involved in the latest monastery to be intimidated as people rather than 'monks in another monastery'.
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:02 pm

I don't know about noodles but China would definitely give a rat's ass if we started buying our own treasuries.
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:51 pm

Yeah, they certainly would, but you guys ain't got no money. That's why you are 14 trillion+ dollars in debt.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:59 am

Right.
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:44 am

For what it's worth, I signed the petition.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Tibetan situation and petition

Postby Thrasymachus » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:58 am

justsit wrote:You have no idea what others do or don't buy. Or what others do or don't care about.


I am pretty sure that living in Delaware it is almost impossible to not buy goods from China. Infact almost everywhere in the world it is likely impossible. I remember when I was little in the late 80's and early 90's when China only made mostly junk plastic toys for children. Alot has changed since then, back then you could have personally boycotted China. Now you would have turn that boycott into a full time job. Good luck with that.

Power in this society is mostly expressed in money. You can say you support Tibet all you want in theory and in words, but in reality you are funding the People Liberation's Army which has important strategic investments throughout the Chinese economy.
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