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The power of logical analysis in buddhism - Dhamma Wheel

The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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DarwidHalim
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The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:46 am

Dear Members,

When we are talking about evidences, there are many type of evidences. There are visual evidences, smell evidences, sound evidences, contact evidences, and taste evidences. All of these evidences are proven because we have these 5 senses, which we can use to prove it. These 5 senses can be considered as gross evidences and the most easy evidence to convince someone.

The failure to show evidences in this form has lead to many claims that what you say, think, or propose cannot make sense because you don't have prove in on of these 5 forms.

Many of science evidences are presented in these 5 type of evidenced, whether as graphs, videos, or many other types which all convince us they exist. What I say is true and you can see it, smell it, touch it, hear it, or taste it.

Without doubts these 5 forms of evidences are int he fact the most powerful evidences.

However, we also have 1 sense, which is this mind and it's intelligent. The prove produced by this last sense is called logical evidence.

In Mathematics or Theoretical Physics, logical evidences play a major role. Many of mathematical theorms or theoretical physics are proven based on the logic itself.

The problem with logical evidence is it is a function of that person intelligent.

When someone read the Mathematical evidence, not everyone will understand it. However, those persons will not reject it. They will say something like I know it is true, but my mind is too stupid to understand it.

Things become interesting when it comes to philosophy. Although philosophy also has graphs or videos as their evidences, the majority of evidence are actually logical evidence.

Bring it to Buddhism, some people think Buddhist is a religion. However, for some people buddhist philosophy is actually not a religion at all. It is a pure science.

Almost all of the proves are actually proven through logic.

The problem with this is for anyone who cannot prove it, they will say Buddhism is wrong. It seldom happen to mathematics. If they cannot prove it with their logic, they will not say it is wrong. They in fact acknowledge themself as stupid. :jumping:

The power of logic proof is beyond eyes evidence. My eye can see there is water is the desert. However, this logic mind can prove it is an illusion.

The non existence of God as a creator in Buddhism is proven not base on 5 senses evidences, but it is proven through logic.

The most difficult subject in Buddhism, which is emptiness of inherent existence itself is proveable through logic. Various school propose their logic. Some of them are rejected by other schools and this process finally lead to different schools. Study of these different school logics finally becomes important because each logic is deny by another finer logic. As a NON BIAS practitioner, we follow them one by one until we ourself convince this is the right one, that is not the right one. We choose the one which match our intelligent. This chosen is not a blind one, but based on our intelligent level at that moment.

The power of logic can be said the backbone of Buddhism. Do you agree about this?

Whatever we see with our eyes in daily life looks extremely so real ad so solid, but when we analyze with logic there existence cannot be proven. Similar with the water image in the middle of the desert. There are illusions. There existence looks so real, but actually there existence is not there and baseless.

The understanding of their non existence finally becomes a shock news. It awake us to realize that actually although their are appearances, but inside their appearances, there are actually nothing.

Suffering is so real and so solid. But actually if we don't run away, and look it inside, there is actually nothing inside.

All of these cannot be proven through 5 senses. They can only be proven through logical analysis.

For those who said science is not important in Buddhism what is your view about this?

Some people say, what Buddhist say cannot be proven through logic. Don't think. Just meditate. It then led me to a question, if you meditate on mathematic theory which you don't understand, can you understand that theory after meditate it for years?

Same thing about Buddhist philosophy.

What is the role of logical analysis in Theravada school? How big is that role in giving you understanding in Buddhist philosophy and it's role in awake you from illusions?

----------
As a note, with this thread I want to bring the thread of 'Science vs Buddhism' to the next level by emphasizing the role of science logic in Buddhism.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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Fede
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby Fede » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:48 am

What do you do for a job, Darwid?
Do you really have this much spare time on your hands?

:coffee:


:zzz:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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m0rl0ck
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby m0rl0ck » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:40 am

Your problem is in thinking that either science or buddhism are the final truth. Both are just views. Enslavement to views is what we are trying to dispense with. My advice is stop thinking so much. Take more time to pay attention and to practice.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

Mawkish1983
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:52 am

I see the word logic being used at times when you mean rationale. Logic is absolute. I also see you say that phenomena don't really exist ontologically. Sounds a lot like solipsism to me.

nameless
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby nameless » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:00 am


Jhana4
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:23 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

chownah
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby chownah » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:49 pm

DarwidHalim,
I think I understand your question...if my understanding is correct then my answer is that I think that the Buddha said that there were two kinds of approach to the path....one relies on faith and one relies on logical analysis of scriptures. I think that what I just wrote is a very rough and incomplete idea and what the Buddha taught was much more refined than that....maybe someone else who is more familiar with those concepts can say more or mention some references.
chownah
P.S. I answered your question about which comes first the father or the son in one of your other threads since they closed the father/son thread....I asked you if I was correct but you never answered.....it is in the same thread where I mentioned the eye touching the car (something that you seemed to take offense with but I don't know why) so if you have time can you take a look and let me know?.....otherwise don't bother as it is not a big deal.
chownah

chownah
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby chownah » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:55 pm


Jhana4
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:19 am

Modern science deals in evidence that is demonstrable to all people and is reproducible under predictable, controllable circumstances.

Buddhism does not have that.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

santa100
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby santa100 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:41 am


nameless
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby nameless » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:25 am


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kirk5a
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby kirk5a » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:08 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

Jhana4
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:52 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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kirk5a
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby kirk5a » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:12 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

Jhana4
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:22 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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ground
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby ground » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:23 pm

There is no absolute logic. A logic is a system of thought based on rules and therefore it is mere convention. If you follow the convention of a logic after having learned it then you can apply it.

If your intent is to prove something in the first place then you can develop a system of logic that proves it. Thus you can generate a system of metaphysics and say "it's proven by logic".
Therefore any logic not being verifiable through "visual evidences, smell evidences, sound evidences, contact evidences, and taste evidences" has no value which entails that both, the sign used as argument and the object inferred have to be accessible to one or more of the 5 senses.
A logic that is not based on "visual evidences, smell evidences, sound evidences, contact evidences, and taste evidences" cannot be verified and therefore is either a joke or a fabrication to entrap (persuade) the naive.


Kind regards

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ground
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby ground » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:48 pm


whynotme
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby whynotme » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:48 am

Topic starter is terribly wrong
Please stop following me

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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:51 am


whynotme
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Re: The power of logical analysis in buddhism

Postby whynotme » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:48 am

Please stop following me


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