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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:31 am 
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conebeckham wrote:
By the way, No one knows about the GuhyaBarbha....but me. It's really secret. It's the secret Barbara.......oh, nevermind.

:smile:

Yeah, you know what I meant, right.....?


My mind went right to "I Dream of Jeannie," a sitcom staring Barbara Eden. It dates me, but I was mentally congratulating you on having that Secret Barbara.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:58 am 
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What is the diff between tsog Chen dupa, gongpa dupa and dupa do? I'm trying to make sense of some of these empowerments. I won't b able to attend the whole weekend, but might catch tsog Chen dupa and wonder what that means. Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:31 am 
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dakini_boi wrote:
What is the diff between tsog Chen dupa, gongpa dupa and dupa do? I'm trying to make sense of some of these empowerments. I won't b able to attend the whole weekend, but might catch tsog Chen dupa and wonder what that means. Thanks


It says the Tsokchen Dupa is the main sadhana of the Gongpa Dupa. I think, but I am not sure, that the Do Gongpa Dupa is abbreviated as either Dupa Do or Gongpa Dupa.

In Jacob Dalton's dissertation he went through the complicated history of how this empowerment has come down to us in different forms and has evolved over the centuries according to the needs of the times. The general idea is that all extant Vajrayana practices of Nubchen's time were gathered into one nine story mandala containing thousands of deities, each level being termed a vehicle. The traditional histories emphasize that this is how anuyoga first came in to Tibet--based on Nupchen's travels... but the empowerments address all nine yanas.

Given that Yangthang Tulku Rinpoche is now expected to wrap up the entire Kama on the 29th, I think we are looking at a more condensed time frame for the Dupa Do than then 5+ days in our example here. He will probably start today, but when exactly the parts you are talking about will occur will probably be impossible to say.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:42 am 
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Well, well. The famous Kagye (eight commands)... guess who the first human lineage holder was? That's right... Loppon Garab Dorje.

Na na na na na.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:26 am 
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kirtu wrote:

Are the empowerments still scheduled to continue until 7 April? Is there an updated schedule?

Kirt


Recent Information on The Kama & Dorje Dechen Lingpa Wangchens:

Dear Sangha,

We have some more information regarding the timing of the Kama & Dorje Dechen Lingpa Wangchens. Ven. Yangthang Rinpoche said that he will complete both Wangchens by April 10th, 2013. Based on this, and his other recent comments, we think that the Kama Wangs will conclude on March 29th, 2013.

Following a 2 day break to re-configure the mandala for the Dorje Dechen Lingpa Wangs, we are expecting them to begin on April 1st, and conclude on April 10th, 2013. Please try to be flexible and open as all the timing may shift by a day or so, one way or the other, according to his timing.

Below is a short biography of the Great Terton, Dorje Dechen Lingpa, the immediate predecessor to our beloved Yangthang Rinpoche.

Short bio of Dorje Dechen Lingpa, the predecessor of Ven. Yangthang Rinpoche:

According to the Prayer to the Series of Incarnations composed by the Terton himself, and drawn from authentic prophecies, in the past at the beginning of this eon this Great Being was the teacher Od Mitrugpa [Akshobhya], the second of the twelve great Ati Yoga propagators. Then in the presence of Lord Buddha Shakyamuni he became one of the seven Foe Destroyers that the doctrine was entrusted to known as Shanai Gochan. Later this Great One took rebirth in India assuming the lifestyle of an ordained bikkshuni, known as Chanchubmo, and inspired many females on the path. Then in Tibet, in the presence of Padmasambhava, among the twenty five principle disciples he manifested as Gyalwa Chogyang. Following this he emanated as Dusum Khenpa [Omniscient throughout the three times] the first Karmapa.

In this way when he later took rebirth as Dorje Dechen Lingpa he was the body emanation of Gyalwa Chogyang, the enlightened speech emanation of the great Lotsawa Berotsana and the enlightened mind emanation of Namkha Nyingpo. In the future he is predicted to reincarnate as one of the thousand Buddhas known as Jampal Rolpa.

Dorje Dechen Lingpa was born in the kingdom of Sikkim and passed away in Kham Tibet. He was an important master at Dhomang Monastery and to that end became known as Dhomang Terchen. Yangthang Tulku Rinpoche was also born in Sikkim and was recognized as this terton’s incarnation by many great masters of the day. He returned to Kham and Dhomang to resume his responsibilities until the Communist invasion at which time he was imprisoned for more than 20 years. He is one of the sole survivors from his generation who eventually made it out of Tibet and is the principle lineage holder of Dorje Dechen Lingpa’s terma transmissions.

Among the two lineages of Kama and Terma, this great master was a treasure or terma revealer who brought into this world once again the great teachings that Guru Rinpoche taught, Yeshe Tsogyal wrote down and that were concealed to be revealed for the disciples of future generations. According to many predictions found in the scriptures, Dorje Dechen Lingpa took rebirth to perform the function of making these treasure teachings available for our time, according to Guru Rinpoche’s own prayers and aspirations. Inseparable with Guru Rinpoche, the blessings of these transmissions are authentic and unsullied representing dharma that is meant for these times, carrying profound blessings for whoever can make any level of connection.

Suggested Donation:

Daily fee: $55/day

If you have registered and paid for the full Kama Wangchen, we are suggesting an additional $100 for the Dorje Dechen Lingpa Wangchen. Please present your badge at registration and receive a new one for the Dorje Dechen Lingpa Wangs.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:28 am 
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Yudron wrote:
Well, well. The famous Kagye (eight commands)... guess who the first human lineage holder was? That's right... Loppon Garab Dorje.

Na na na na na.


Neener Neener! :tongue: :alien:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:58 am 
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Yudron wrote:
Well, well. The famous Kagye (eight commands)... guess who the first human lineage holder was? That's right... Loppon Garab Dorje.

Na na na na na.


Never heard that before. Every Nyingma historian I've ever read claims the Mahayoga entered the human world through King Ja, aka Indrabhuti. Funny how Dudjom forgot to mention this in his history. Unless, of course, I missed it, and If so, please let me know where I might find this reference, as that's quite a major statement.

Otherwise, I will give you that Dudjom does state that the Manjushrimitra that transmitted Yamantaka to GR did also study with Garab Dorje, but then again in Guru Tashi's History (which seems to be the primary source for Dudjom's) it is made abundantly clear that this Manjushrimitra was an emanation of the first. A claim which echoes the opinions of lot of prominent Nyingma figures, including Jigme Lingpa, and is perhaps the reason why the iconography of these two apsects of Manjushrimitra is so different.

Anyway, I doubt I'll convince you, as I imagine you have much more trust in whoever is telling you these things, than you do some stranger on the internet, as you should. Nor am I convinced by unsubstantiated claims from strangers on the internet, which amount to little more than hearsay.

Besides, I doubt it makes much of a difference to either of us which version we choose to believe.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:26 am 
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yegyal wrote:
Yudron wrote:
Well, well. The famous Kagye (eight commands)... guess who the first human lineage holder was? That's right... Loppon Garab Dorje.

Na na na na na.


Never heard that before. Every Nyingma historian I've ever read claims the Mahayoga entered the human world through King Ja, aka Indrabhuti. Funny how Dudjom forgot to mention this in his history. Unless, of course, I missed it, and If so, please let me know where I might find this reference, as that's quite a major statement.

Otherwise, I will give you that Dudjom does state that the Manjushrimitra that transmitted Yamantaka to GR did also study with Garab Dorje, but then again in Guru Tashi's History (which seems to be the primary source for Dudjom's) it is made abundantly clear that this Manjushrimitra was an emanation of the first. A claim which echoes the opinions of lot of prominent Nyingma figures, including Jigme Lingpa, and is perhaps the reason why the iconography of these two apsects of Manjushrimitra is so different.

Anyway, I doubt I'll convince you, as I imagine you have much more trust in whoever is telling you these things, than you do some stranger on the internet, as you should. Nor am I convinced by unsubstantiated claims from strangers on the internet, which amount to little more than hearsay.

Besides, I doubt it makes much of a difference to either of us which version we choose to believe.


Oh, I don't have any way of knowing about the Manjushrimita story. Dudjom Rinpoche's History is a compilation of previous histories, sometimes word for word I hear.

The Loppon names the lineage for each empowerment in the Kama he gives. Each one is a little different. I assume these are recorded in the text, but I don't know for sure. The Kagye empowerment had four different lineages. You can take a look and see what you see, but I checked with others and we all heard "Loppon Garab Dorje" clear as a bell. It is a violation of samaya to reveal the contents of an empowerment, so I'll just say it had strong Ati components. :bow:

I recommend attending these empowerments some time. They are very different than I thought, based on what I had read, in a lot of ways. I wish I could sit down with a Khenpo and ask questions for a week after we get done.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:23 am 
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During the Nyingma Kahma empowerments at Shechen in 2004, one of the tulku's would explain the empowerments given in the evening. As those who are receiving these empowerments may realise, some of these practices are far more elaborate than we are used to, given our own limited experience. On one evening the tulku teaching came in and said that Kyabje Trulshik Rinpoche was concerned that to his knowledge, no one was taking the responsibility to continue the practice tradition of one of these empowerments, he then explained that it was quite elaborate requiring the simultaneous visualisation of 13 mandalas, and KTR requested for someone (amongst this large group of western sangha) to take the responsibility to continue the practice lineage of this particular transmission. I got the feeling there was a Dr Strangelove moment, where a lot of people wanted to raise their hand and uphold KTR's wishes and request, but the other hand was holding the raising one down realising their own meditative and yogic capacity in relation to the task ahead. (maybe some humble practitioner came forward after, away from the large gathering and took that responsibility).

Also, in regards to the Kagye transmissions, I have heard that GR said that this was his life essence, and if these transmissions disappear then so would he. I was told there was a very special Kagye transmission (I don't know what lineage), that takes two weeks of empowerments to give, that was almost lost as the empowerment text had been lost and could not be found, and as of last year only Kyabje Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche and Kyabje Chatrul Rinpoche were the only living holders of that transmission. But the text was miraculously found and Kyabje Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche gave it in Shimla last year to all the tulku, lamas and everyone present. So very fortunate. Rejoice. Emaho!!!

Also, I form the impression that the Kahma practices may have been very suited to the necessary requirements to address the four activities in new Dharma lands, and this is why they were prevalent in the beginning in Tibet (just my guess). So I guess that whilst practitioners may be practising a given terma cycle, whatever, that if their samaya and practice is good, somehow the benefit of holding the likes of the Nyingma Kahma creates its own blessings on the environment they are in. I have also heard it said it is good if there is at least someone holding various empowerment cycles within a given country, that that will ensure some blessings of that lineage come to the country.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Are you sure it wasn't Gepe Dorje (sgeg pa'i rdo rje, aka Lilavajra/Vilasavajra)? That would make more sense and depending on the accent it might sound very similar to Garab Dorje. It just sounds very strange to me, as I've never heard of Garab Dorje being associated with the Kagye. In fact, most of the Kagye cycles are terma, so the existence of a kama lineage that goes back to Garab Dorje seems like something that would be well known. Then again, the Kama collection is huge and I'm hardly an expert, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong. Perhaps even happily surprised.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:24 pm 
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yegyal wrote:
Are you sure it wasn't Gepe Dorje (sgeg pa'i rdo rje, aka Lilavajra/Vilasavajra)? That would make more sense and depending on the accent it might sound very similar to Garab Dorje. It just sounds very strange to me, as I've never heard of Garab Dorje being associated with the Kagye. In fact, most of the Kagye cycles are terma, so the existence of a kama lineage that goes back to Garab Dorje seems like something that would be well known. Then again, the Kama collection is huge and I'm hardly an expert, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong. Perhaps even happily surprised.


Yegyal, I am just an ordinary person, and you seem to be very well trained in Nyingma history. I will try ask someone, such as one of the translators or lamas about it today to double check the hearing of us injies. We are somewhat segregated from them because they are so busy, but I will see what I can do. I was shocked too, but I was also shocked at how the wang emphasized the Dzogchen aspects. He reeled off the lineage name so fast I couldn't catch all the names, and the translator did not even attempt it--however Vairotsana and Guru Rinpoche were also definitely part of this Kama tradition. The text is called something like "The Vajra Garland-- the Fortress of the Eight Herukas" and he said there are four main rivers of lineage for this empowerment.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:37 pm 
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Here is a picture of the front of Orgyen Dorje Den. This is Gyatrul Rinpoche's center, but he brings in lamas to teach and give empowerments from all Nyingma traditions.


Attachments:
File comment: Outside Orgyen Dorje Den, Alameda, CA 3-22-13
For Dw.jpg
For Dw.jpg [ 24.19 KiB | Viewed 808 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Yudron wrote:
yegyal wrote:
Are you sure it wasn't Gepe Dorje (sgeg pa'i rdo rje, aka Lilavajra/Vilasavajra)? That would make more sense and depending on the accent it might sound very similar to Garab Dorje. It just sounds very strange to me, as I've never heard of Garab Dorje being associated with the Kagye. In fact, most of the Kagye cycles are terma, so the existence of a kama lineage that goes back to Garab Dorje seems like something that would be well known. Then again, the Kama collection is huge and I'm hardly an expert, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong. Perhaps even happily surprised.


Yegyal, I am just an ordinary person, and you seem to be very well trained in Nyingma history. I will try ask someone, such as one of the translators or lamas about it today to double check the hearing of us injies. We are somewhat segregated from them because they are so busy, but I will see what I can do. I was shocked too, but I was also shocked at how the wang emphasized the Dzogchen aspects. He reeled off the lineage name so fast I couldn't catch all the names, and the translator did not even attempt it--however Vairotsana and Guru Rinpoche were also definitely part of this Kama tradition. The text is called something like "The Vajra Garland-- the Fortress of the Eight Herukas" and he said there are four main rivers of lineage for this empowerment.


It kinda makes sense that there would be a kama Kagye lineage going back to Garab Dorje because Guru Rinpoche and the other 7 masters of Kagye received it together in a kama fashion... I think all termas have a kama precedent that they were based, which makes sense since it had to come from somewhere and Guru Rinpoche seems to have acted as a role model for the process of lineage transmission, the guru disciple relationship, and going through the stages of practice even though he was already fully realized. As for the Kagye transmission, I believe it had been entrusted to Dakini Lekyi Wangmo (maybe?), and she actually bestowed it upon all 8 masters, but it had been entrusted to her by maybe Shri Singha or Manjushrimitra? Any of this ringing a bell for anybody? My memory is so vague on this because I heard it so long ago. But if it went down similar to what I'm saying, it would make sense originally coming from GD since he was Manjushrimitra's master and Manjushrimitra was I think Shri Singha's master?, and he was Guru Rinpoche's master.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:37 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:07 pm 
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Wow! I prostrate to his lotus feet with pure awe and devotion. That may sound cheesily traditionalist, but he's made such a huge impression on me that that's just really how I feel. I really must make it down for at least one or two days.

Not to seem like I'm in the habit of cherry picking or "going only for the highest teachings," but if this is the last time I see Rinpoche in this life, since he's an inconceivable Dzogchen master I'd most want to receive more Ati teachings from him if I can. Has he already gotten into that section, and either way, anyone have a clue if he'll be giving those this week? And if so, any idea when?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:02 am 
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Yudron wrote:
yegyal wrote:
Are you sure it wasn't Gepe Dorje (sgeg pa'i rdo rje, aka Lilavajra/Vilasavajra)? That would make more sense and depending on the accent it might sound very similar to Garab Dorje. It just sounds very strange to me, as I've never heard of Garab Dorje being associated with the Kagye. In fact, most of the Kagye cycles are terma, so the existence of a kama lineage that goes back to Garab Dorje seems like something that would be well known. Then again, the Kama collection is huge and I'm hardly an expert, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong. Perhaps even happily surprised.


Yegyal, I am just an ordinary person, and you seem to be very well trained in Nyingma history. I will try ask someone, such as one of the translators or lamas about it today to double check the hearing of us injies. We are somewhat segregated from them because they are so busy, but I will see what I can do. I was shocked too, but I was also shocked at how the wang emphasized the Dzogchen aspects. He reeled off the lineage name so fast I couldn't catch all the names, and the translator did not even attempt it--however Vairotsana and Guru Rinpoche were also definitely part of this Kama tradition. The text is called something like "The Vajra Garland-- the Fortress of the Eight Herukas" and he said there are four main rivers of lineage for this empowerment.


Oh, that totally clears it up. That's an empowerment for the Kagye Dzong Thrang, which is actually part of the Dzogchen Semde tradition. So, you definitely heard right. However, these aren't the "famous Kagye," which are part of the Mahayoga tradition. Anyway, issue solved. Thank for your patience!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:11 am 
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Very interesting. The presentation did have parts this ignoramus thinks seemed like a sem de style, but with lots of deities, too. Lots!

So, there are deity nyen drups in the sem de, eh? Can you say more about that? Are they classified as maha ati?

And--Rinpoche is giving no other Kagye wang that I know of. Where does one find the maha mahayoga Kagye?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:19 am 
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Yudron wrote:
Where does one find the maha mahayoga Kagye?


In the rnying ma rgyud 'bum

Under Mahayoga Tantra Series (rgyud sde)

Then Under The Practice Series of the Eight Proclamation Deities (sgrub sde bka’ brgyad)

The Eight Proclamation Deities of mahayoga Kagye (bka’ brgyad)

1) Yamantaka (Tib. Jampal Shinje, ’jam dpal sku) the wrathful Manjushri, the deity of body
from The Mañjuśrī Cycle on Enlightened Form (’jam dpal sku’i skor)

2) Hayagriva (Tib. Pema Sung, padma gsung) the wrathful Avalokiteshvara, the deity of speech. from The Lotus Tantras on Enlightened Communication (pad ma gsung gi rgyud)

3) Vishuddha/Sri Samyak (Tib. Yangdak Thuk, Wylie: yang dag thugs) the wrathful Vajrapani deity of mind, from The Real Tantras on Enlightened Mind (yang dag thugs kyi rgyud)

4) Vajramrita (Tib. Dudtsi Yonten, bdud rtsi yon tan) the wrathful Samantabhadra, the deity of enlightened qualities, from The Nectar Tantras on Enlightened Qualities (bdud rtsi yon tan gyi rgyud)

5) Vajrakilaya/Vajrakumara (Tib. Dorje Phurba, phur ba ‘phrin las), the wrathful Nivaranavishkambin, the deity of action, frp, The Sacred Dagger Cycle on Enlightened Activities (phrin las phur pa’i skor)

6) Matarah (Tib. Mamo Botong, ma mo rbod gtong) the wrathful Akasagarbha, the deity of calling and dispatching from The Cycle on Invoking the Fierce Ma-mo Deities (ma mo rbod gtong skor)

7) Lokastotrapuja-natha (Tib. Jigten Chotod, ’jig rten mchod bstod) the wrathful Ksitigarbha, the deity of worldly offering and praise, from Offerings and Praises to Protect the Teachings (bstan srung mchod bstod)

8) Vajramantrabhiru (Tib. Mopa Dragnak, mod pa drag sngags) the wrathful Maitreya, the deity of wrathful mantras, from The Cycle on Fierce Mantras (drag sngags skor)

The Eight Herukas of the Nyingma Mahāyoga Kagye:
(Wylie: sgrub pa bka’ brgyad) of the Nyingma mahāyoga tradition (and their corresponding sadhanas) are said to have been received by Padmakara from the Eight Vidyadharas (Tib. Rigdzin), or Eight Great Acharyas: Manjushrimitra, Nagarjuna, Vajrahumkara, Vimalamitra, Prabhahasti, Dhanasamskrita, Shintamgarbha and Guhyachandra.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:24 am 
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Cool! Thank you.

Who gives the wangs from the Gyudbum?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:30 am 
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Yudron wrote:
Cool! Thank you.

Who gives the wangs from the Gyudbum?


You're welcome, here is another interesting page, it mentions a few teachers at the bottom
but I didn't follow it, I think most of the practices are done from terma these days,
however, these are really the roots, entrusted to Padmasambhava & the 8 Vidyadaras.

Have a read, it's a good page:

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Kagy%C3%A9

enjoy

also...you can see the essence of the eight in the later time terma of Jigme Lingpa's Rigdzin Dupa:
http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Rigdzin_D%C3%BCpa


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