The Third Eye

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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:39 am

gregkavarnos wrote:Okay. These snide "country club" references are of no help to anybody (especially Motova) and I think you will find that nobody (as far as I have read) is trying to "pull rank" on Motova about their experiences. I think you will find that the majority of people have been saying that experiences are just that: experiences and that Motova should really be looking at find a qualified teacher to explain these experiences to them (and give them practices).

And Tobes, I am sorry, but you know very well that in Buddhism in general, and Tibetan Buddhism specifically, meditational experiences are not subjects for public discussion. Mainly because it may act as a cause for an unexperienced practitioner to further reify their experiences. Jnana and Simon E. have both referred to "nimitta", Motova would do well to research this term.

If Motova wishes to discuss his experiences with people via Private Message, it is completely up to them, accounts of and discussion concerning his specific experiences in this thread are now officially over.

I anybody wishes to post some more in- depth information or links to nimitta now would be a good time to do it.
:namaste:

PS No more teasing and snide remarks.


Well to be fair, those aren't meditation experiences but my typical day to day experience.

:namaste:
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:45 am

The effects of meditation do not stop once you leave the pillow (stop meditating). Meditation on loving kindness leads to an increase in feelings of loving kindness (metta) in our daily lives too. That's the point of meditation, meditational practice is not an end unto itself.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:49 am

Simon E. wrote:I am not sure if anyone has mentioned the concept of nimitta yet...So I will.

:namaste:


Thanks so much! :cheers:

I found this:

http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-con ... a-piya.pdf

:namaste:
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Simon E. » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:33 am

You are most welcome..

Interesting isn't it ?


:namaste:

NB A teacher can be very helpful in identifying nimitta from other arisings of mind stuff...
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:36 am

Simon E. wrote:You are most welcome..

Interesting isn't it ?

:namaste:


Most definitely, it even explained champagne bubbles (referred to Dhyanas in the link) phenomena I described in another thread!
:woohoo: :thanks:

:namaste:
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Simon E. » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:43 pm

Dont miss the bit about the desirability of instruction from a Teacher.

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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Andrew108 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:05 pm

Simon E. wrote:Dont miss the bit about the desirability of instruction from a Teacher.

:namaste:

Or the bit about going beyond meditator and object meditated on. Or the bit about not grasping experiences. Or the bit about not turning experiences into objects. It's all there.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby dearreader » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:11 pm

Motova wrote:After a few sessions of mindfulness meditation and concentrating on an eye between my two physical eyes, I started seeing orbs (of various colours and sizes), masses (coloured clouds or smoke), auras, and visual snow.


Motova,

You mention this is happening all the time. I politely suggest you see an eye-doctor immediately. If you are seeing "smoke," "snow," or streaks there might be a problem with your retina. Typically these "images" are more apparent in dark settings, such as you might have in a room where you are meditating.

Apologise for the off topic post.
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Heaven-and-earth itself is the sutra book.
All phenomena are encompassed in even a single point therein,
And the six sense objects are all included within its covers."
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby oushi » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:15 pm

dearreader wrote:You mention this is happening all the time. I politely suggest you see an eye-doctor immediately.

I second that.
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Andrew108 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:07 pm

Yes definitely see a doctor. If there is a physical problem i.e glaucoma then it needs to be assessed asap. Hopefully all will be o.k.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Namgyal » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:05 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Okay. These snide "country club" references are of no help to anybody...No more snide remarks.

My apologies for any offence caused to members, I was merely adopting an extreme position for the purposes of debate. My own views are very different. As for this thread, my advice for Motova would be same as in an earlier post; to consult with a senior and unanimously well-regarded Tibetan Lama, by long-distance travel if necessary. It would also be wise to consult with a physician.
:namaste:
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:09 pm

dearreader wrote:
Motova wrote:After a few sessions of mindfulness meditation and concentrating on an eye between my two physical eyes, I started seeing orbs (of various colours and sizes), masses (coloured clouds or smoke), auras, and visual snow.


Motova,

You mention this is happening all the time. I politely suggest you see an eye-doctor immediately. If you are seeing "smoke," "snow," or streaks there might be a problem with your retina. Typically these "images" are more apparent in dark settings, such as you might have in a room where you are meditating.

Apologise for the off topic post.


Thanks for your concern, though to be honest I've been seeing "visual snow for about 7 years (5 years prior to when I started seeing the other things or started meditating) I just read from different online resources that it was a sign of an "awakened third eye" so I threw it in there. Moreover, my brother also sees visual snow. I've gone to an optometrist several times (though for nothing I described), and my vision is near perfect (and I would think he would notice some signs of any serious issues). It has crossed my mind many times, though I have cross referenced my experiences with a number of different internet resources that have described what I see - giving me a peace of mind. Though I will ask my doctor about visual snow, I'm hesitant about telling her about the other things I see because I don't want to be classified as a looney. :crazy: Finally, that link I posted is a perfect description of what I have been experiencing for more than 2 years now to a tee.

As for the teacher, I plan to find one in Toronto once I start going down there to the University of Toronto for Buddhist Studies. But Currently I lack the funds to use the train and I need to save for university.

:namaste:
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Jnana » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:10 pm

Simon E. wrote:I am not sure if anyone has mentioned the concept of nimitta yet...So I will.

Yes, nimitta was already mentioned:

Jnana wrote:These types of experiences of orbs and other phenomena are not all that uncommon among meditators, and are a byproduct of the development of meditative composure (samādhi).... In the exoteric Buddhist teachings, light nimittas can be used to further develop samādhi or the divine eye, etc. They are neither good nor bad, and are not a sign of high attainments. For any practices that are not exoteric, such as vajrayāna practices, one is best advised to find a qualified teacher and follow their advice.
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:21 pm

Jnana wrote:
Simon E. wrote:I am not sure if anyone has mentioned the concept of nimitta yet...So I will.

Yes, nimitta was already mentioned:

Jnana wrote:These types of experiences of orbs and other phenomena are not all that uncommon among meditators, and are a byproduct of the development of meditative composure (samādhi).... In the exoteric Buddhist teachings, light nimittas can be used to further develop samādhi or the divine eye, etc. They are neither good nor bad, and are not a sign of high attainments. For any practices that are not exoteric, such as vajrayāna practices, one is best advised to find a qualified teacher and follow their advice.


Aha sorry I missed it, it was kinda hidden there - sometimes I read to fast! :thanks:

:namaste:
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Jnana » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Motova wrote:Aha sorry I missed it, it was kinda hidden there - sometimes I read to fast! :thanks:

I'm glad to see that you found that PDF by Piya Tan. I've experienced light nimittas myself, though not in the variety that you described. I've also talked to a number of other meditators who have had similar experiences. Light nimittas are neither good nor bad, but it's possible to become infatuated with such experiences, especially the bliss that can arise when using nimittas to develop deep samādhi.

Probably the most well known teachers who teach meditation specifically with the use of nimittas are Ajahn Brahmavamso and Pa-Auk Sayadaw. Both of these teachers, as well as senior students in the case of Pa-Auk Sayadaw, have taught internationally and written quite extensively on the subject.

I think it's possible to communicate with Ajahn Brahm and other monastics in his community through the Dhammaloka Community Forum.

Tina Rasmussen and Stephen Snyder are students of Pa-Auk Sayadaw, and have been authorized to teach by him. They can be contacted through the Awakening Dharma website.

:buddha1:
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:07 pm

Okay, I do believe that Motovas question has been answered, so I think it is time to lay this thread to rest. If anybody feels they have anything important and relevant to add (that has not already been said) please feel free to contact me.

Good luck on your path Motova! I sincerely hope that, without any delays, you find a qualified and realised teacher to assist you with your spiritual development.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Seishin » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:02 pm

Thread unlocked on request of the OP.

Gassho,
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby reddust » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:14 pm

I missed this thread because of the 3rd eye title! I usually ignore this because it is not prt of my practice. I have had the visual snow, orbs, round mandala like fractals with eyes open or closed since i was a kid. They are easier to see with eyes closed or in the dark. Nimittas started my first Vippasana retreat along with cool silk like sensation on the face and strong bliss. Over whelming for a beginner, now the display is very subtle. I think one gets used to it or maybe something to do with intergration. happy the thread was open again! I was tested for everything physically and psychologically...if there is a normal allopaths and western pyschologist say I am normal :tongue:
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:25 am

I finally told me doctor about this. She told me to book an appointment with an optometrist specifically for this reason, which I did. I'll post an update after I have the appointment.

In the meantime...

Ever since learning that these lights are projections of my mind, I began fiddling with them. For instance, turning the lights off and having them "highlight" or "locate" things. I have only done this a few times, but I achieved immediate results.

It makes me think of this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXPTLNVAIfc

any thoughts?
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Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:22 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
If Motova wishes to discuss his experiences with people via Private Message, it is completely up to them, accounts of and discussion concerning his specific experiences in this thread are now officially over.

I anybody wishes to post some more in- depth information or links to nimitta now would be a good time to do it.
:namaste:

PS No more teasing and snide remarks.


It appears everyone got hung up on the title. I have found some quotes recently that seem to answer what I have been experiencing, and it seems to be almost exactly how I remember explaining it in this thread. But Greg decided to delete my post and halt the thread, no hard feelings Greg. :cheers:

"Generally, the visions begin with lights and patterns of light. The Light is colored - often one or two colors will dominate, or a color may not manifest at all. There are specific shapes and colors associated with each element as it begins to manifest in its purer form: square yellow shapes for earth; circular blue shapes for water; triangular red shapes for fire; green rectangular shapes for air; and white semicircular shapes for space. Eventually fragments of images appear, usually fleeting and unclear. Over time they become whole and stable. The progression is not random. As the practice deepens, the main channels and chakras open and karmic blocks and habitual tendencies dissolve in the nature of mind. The obscurations that clothe the pure elements in apparent substantiality are cleared and the visions become correspondingly purer. They become more complete and vivid, and the colors are more balanced. Visions of deities, goddesses, mandalas, sacred syllables, and symbols arise."

Page 132

Wangyal, Tenzin, and Mark Dahlby. Healing with form, energy and light: the five elements in Tibetan Shamanism, Tantra, and Dzogchen. Ithaca, NY: Snow Lion Pub., 2002. Print.



"More specifically, during the first stage there are two lights, one internal and one external. When we start to practice, we feel as if a light or coming out of us. Here the symbol of the light is the "tigle of the rigpa of the color of glass," which means one feels as if one were looking through the bottom of a glass. The tigles are very luminous and can vary in size; the smallest can be the size of a pea, others can be much bigger. Also many tigles can appear joined together in various ways, horizontally, vertically, etc., forming strands or chains, in which case they are called the "the right of compassion" or the "silver thread," as they are white and luminous and resemble silver. The tigles can appear singly or joined together; there are no limits to possibilities of vision.

Page 169

"At times it seems it is the vision that is moving, at other times we might think it is our eyes, or that the movement is internal, the inner energy of rigpa. In fact, in togel everything is connected: external vision, the eyes, and the internal energy, and in the first stage everything moves together. But it is important to understand that once presence is adequately stable we can stop the movement. This is what is described as "catching the fish in the net of darkness," fixing the movement through stable presence."

Page 170

Wangyal, Tenzin, and Andrew Lukianowicz. Wonders of the natural mind: the essence of Dzogchen in the native Bon tradition of Tibet. Ithaca, NY: Snow Lion Publications, 2000. Print.

The last quote seems to clear this thread up:

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=13672

And so I guess I need to find a teacher...

What is the difference between these lights and visions, and nimittas?

And what is their relationship with Kundalini?

:namaste:
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