3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

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3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby TaTa » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:16 pm

Hi. Im very fond of this prayer and i only have it in spanish. Is there an online resource where i can find the tibetan phonetics so i can chant it in its original language? Thanks
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:20 pm

Have you received the reading transmission (lung) for this prayer?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby TaTa » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:32 pm

Nop. I didnt know it was necessary. Thank you
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby randomseb » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:39 am

TaTa wrote:Nop. I didnt know it was necessary. Thank you


Googling for "aspiration of mahamudra prayer" will find you "About 81,500 results"

:oops:
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby conebeckham » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:52 pm

True, but I haven't seen one yet, on the net, with Tibetan phonetics.
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:12 pm

randomseb wrote:
TaTa wrote:Nop. I didnt know it was necessary. Thank you


Googling for "aspiration of mahamudra prayer" will find you "About 81,500 results"

:oops:
And googling "child pornography" turns up 43,800,000 results, so what?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Silent Bob » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:27 pm

Over the years, my teacher, Thrangu Rinpoche, has taught extensively on the Aspiration of Mahamudra Prayer and while he may have given a lung for the text at some point, I really don't recall whether he did or not. I should mention that while he is still a stickler about having students practice in Tibetan, he must have made an exception for the Prayer of MM, because the group recitation has always been in English. The text is quite long, you know, and the efficacy of having students recite a philosophically subtle work in a language they don't understand is questionable at best.

In answer to your question, though, I've searched through my library and in Thrangu Rinpoche's website <rinpoche.com> and haven't found the Tibetan transliteration you're looking for. If you're interested, there is a longish commentary on the text by Situ Rinpoche in Shenpen Osel online magazine, Vol 2, number 1: http://www.shenpen-osel.org/.

Chris
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Stewart » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:12 pm

Silent Bob wrote:Over the years, my teacher, Thrangu Rinpoche, has taught extensively on the Aspiration of Mahamudra Prayer and while he may have given a lung for the text at some point, I really don't recall whether he did or not. I should mention that while he is still a stickler about having students practice in Tibetan, he must have made an exception for the Prayer of MM, because the group recitation has always been in English. The text is quite long, you know, and the efficacy of having students recite a philosophically subtle work in a language they don't understand is questionable at best.

In answer to your question, though, I've searched through my library and in Thrangu Rinpoche's website <rinpoche.com> and haven't found the Tibetan transliteration you're looking for. If you're interested, there is a longish commentary on the text by Situ Rinpoche in Shenpen Osel online magazine, Vol 2, number 1: http://www.shenpen-osel.org/.

Chris


Thrangu Rinpoche is, quite simply, a powerhouse, I spent the best part of two weeks locked in a small shrine room with TR and about two dozen other people receiving all the Kamtsang 3 year retreat Wangs and Lungs (which I haven't completed btw) It was intense to say the least. I also got these transmissions in a similar fashion from my main Guru, Mingyur Rinpoche a couple of years later and it felt like a much more relaxed affair.

Anyway, back on topic....about 10 years ago I was at Sherab Ling for Tai Situpas 50th birthday and our group, from Samye Ling, got a private 3 day teaching on the Mahamudra prayer of Rangjung Dorje in the Choten Lhakhang. Tai Situpa was immense, at the end of the 3 days he sang the prayer to us and said we coud consider that the Lung for it.

But the really amazing thing was the dedication he made at the end, he said 'From the bottom of my heart I pray that through this merit each and everyone of you attain complete and perfect Buddhahood, and I sincerely pray that when you give your first teaching to liberate sentient beings I (Tai Situpa) am fortunate enough to be present in the audience to hear them!'

Everyone was very moved and many tears were shed, he is an amazing master.

Lama Chenno!
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby cataractmoon » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:58 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Have you received the reading transmission (lung) for this prayer?


What does or doesn't need a transmission (lung)? There are so many translated books, so many prayers, and so many newly written works.

What makes a "prayer" significant or not significant for a lung?

I read Calling the Guru from Afar any day of the week but have no transmission for it, for example.

Cheers!
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:14 pm

You can do whatever you like whenever you like, that does not make what you are doing right (or wrong).

I cannot speak in general, but I know for certain that the specific prayer requires a lung.

Anything more than that I will leave to people much more informed than me to answer. :smile:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby randomseb » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:18 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
randomseb wrote:
TaTa wrote:Nop. I didnt know it was necessary. Thank you


Googling for "aspiration of mahamudra prayer" will find you "About 81,500 results"

And googling "child pornography" turns up 43,800,000 results, so what?


It is fairly disturbing that you would go there :roll:

General reading of a text and practicing a text are two different things :shrug:

There's no call for getting upset :thumbsup:

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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:52 am

randomseb wrote:It is fairly disturbing that you would go there :roll:
Just making a point. Disturbing is the fact that there is even a single reference (to child pornography) out there on the internet.
General reading of a text and practicing a text are two different things :shrug:
You won't see me disagreeing there.
There's no call for getting upset :thumbsup:
I am not upset, you are projecting. ;)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Stewart » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:10 am

I honestly hate the phrase 'you are projecting' it is one of the most over used, bullsh#t phrases used by western Buddhists.

What it basically means is 'I've just said/done something disagreeable... But its your impure perception; ergo your fault I've just acted like a d#ck.'
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:13 am

Completely off topic but I'll go with it.
I honestly hate the phrase 'you are projecting' it is one of the most over used, bullsh#t phrases used by western Buddhists.

What it basically means is 'I've just said/done something disagreeable... But its your impure perception; ergo your fault I've just acted like a d#ck.'

Well, that is your opinion. But I personally know when I am upset or not, which (in the particualr instance) I was not. And it is quite clear that there are instances where people do project what they believe other people are feeling (and this is one of them).

Your above statement is another instance of projection: you feel aversion towards the (misguided) utilisation (based on a past experience) of a single phrase and so you project your feeling onto every single instance of the use of the phrase.

And, I don't know if you are aware of this, but putting "#" into expeletives does not sanctify their use. Now, I could easily (and justifiably) accuse you of being disagreeable and a male member too, so chill out, because your behaviour is not earning you any brownie points. ;)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Stewart » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:28 am

My point being greg that everything, relatively speaking, is a projection.... Not just people's opinions that you disagree with. We love to apply it to others but not ourselves.

Yeah of course I have aversion, I am a sentient being afterall... Don't you? Do you have aversion to the subject you googled?

Lastly, I hardly think you are in position to criticise my choice of language, do you greg?
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:41 am

Stewart wrote:My point being greg that everything, relatively speaking, is a projection.... Not just people's opinions that you disagree with. We love to apply it to others but not ourselves.
In the abovementioned case I was not talking in general (though you are 100% correct, everything, relatively speaking, is a projection), in the abovementioned case it was clearly a matter of randomseb projecting their feelings onto my remark. Like I said befre: I know I was not upset. Now are you saying you know what I feel better, than I do?
Yeah of course I have aversion, I am a sentient being afterall... Don't you? Do you have aversion to the subject you googled?
I've already answered that question.
Lastly, I hardly think you are in position to criticise my choice of language, do you greg?
Two wrongs don't make a right! ;)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:20 am

Sorry, just to clarify the confusion: the point I was (clumsily) trying to make is that just because a Google search turns up a teaching, does not mean that the teaching should be freely available. Just like the instance where a websearch for a (we all agree it seems) generally "nasty topic" does not legitimate the "nasty topic". I picked an (obviously) extreme example in the hope that may point was made clearer, it seems though that people reacted more to the example I chose than to the point I was trying to make (fair enough, given the nature of the example). I will try to use less extreme examples in the future! :smile:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby Yudron » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:13 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Sorry, just to clarify the confusion: the point I was (clumsily) trying to make is that just because a Google search turns up a teaching, does not mean that the teaching should be freely available. Just like the instance where a websearch for a (we all agree it seems) generally "nasty topic" does not legitimate the "nasty topic". I picked an (obviously) extreme example in the hope that may point was made clearer, it seems though that people reacted more to the example I chose than to the point I was trying to make (fair enough, given the nature of the example). I will try to use less extreme examples in the future! :smile:


I agree with Greg's main point here, which is that it sounds like this is traditionally a restricted practice, presumably introduced to students in the Kagyu system at an appropriate point in their training. There is no need for it to be circulating on the internet. As a practitioner in another lineage, I don't need to see it. Rather than cherry picking the highest teachings of every Tibetan lineage I need to bring my own practice to fruition.
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby muni » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:18 pm

Picking from all traditions while remaining suffering is indeed very sad while Rime Masters get teaching from each tradition and encourage students to listen to other teachers while the student remain under their guidance. A Master never abandons the student.

One tradition or more traditions. Nyingma-Kagyu...
I think all talk from own Dharma connection, always respected through awareness.
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Re: 3rd karmapa's aspiration of mahamudra prayer

Postby randomseb » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:06 pm

All good points.. This quote explains well enough why I don't see a problem with having a text freely available for reading:

What I am going to present here is an explanation of the view, meditation, and conduct of Mahamudra as it is expressed in The Aspiration Prayer for Mahamudra that was written by the Third Gyalwa Karmapa, the Victorious Rangjung Dorje.

- His Eminence Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche the Third, Karma Lodrö Chökyi Senge

http://www.dharmadownload.net/pages/eng ... h_0034.htm


There are a number of commentary texts and speeches by various rimpoche available about this particular prayer, and so it seems to me that it should be taken in the same way as a sutra or zen poetry or such, a text to study to get an understanding of the goal, you know?

If the masters of this path have no problem freely expounding this publicly, if there are tons of books about it for sale everywhere by these people about it.. we should be good to discuss it

:stirthepot:

Anyway my original point was a teaching on how to use the internet instead of beg for information :rolling:
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