JKhedrup wrote:I hope you are right,but I am not so convinced. As a translator I can tell you many dharma practitioners struggle with adultery and the like because I have translated many such interviews for the lamas. If they were unfaithful, they probably would not tell their Sangha friends.
Sherab Rigdrol wrote:JKhedrup wrote:Remember a horny person who becomes celibate just becomes a horny celibate.
That's a big generalization. You don't give people enough credit. Spiritual practice can help us to have more control over all sorts of impulses, including the sexual urge.
Fortunately my main struggle as a monk if with the institutional lack of freedom and my independent nature rather than celibacy.
But I know several people in the Sangha who were previously promiscuous swingers and decided they had had enough, took up Brahmacarya and have had great success in reducing the hold this impulse once had over them. So even people who were once irresponsible sexually are capable of Brahmacarya if they are determined.
Celibacy definitely isn't for everyone, and should not be prescribed for everyone. Nor should it be undersold as for many it can be a valuable and transformative assist in spiritual practice.
Many great tantric practitioners were celibate monks, and not just in the Gelug tradition. Think Patrul Rinpoche, Gampopa, Penor Rinpoche, the 16 of the 17 Karmapas etc.
Just for clarification I wasn't taking a poke at those who choose Brahmacarya. I think that some people simply lack the desire, or karma and thus have the causes and conditions to take up that vow. My statement was meant towards those who believe you cannot make any spiritual progress without renunciation of lust. And when I say renunciation, I am referring to actually giving up sexual activity, not the basic renunciation of realizing the empty nature of desire. Also, I believe many people choose celibacy in a spiritual context in order to bypass their basic psychological ground, which ultimately causes more difficulties in the long run--hence my statement.
Yudron wrote:Actual sexual desire is a requirement in order to be eligible for monk's vows.
Keeping vows adds power to one's practice.
Huseng wrote:Yudron wrote:Actual sexual desire is a requirement in order to be eligible for monk's vows.
Keeping vows adds power to one's practice.
I've never heard of this after translating copious amounts of material on the Vinaya.
What is your source?
Nemo wrote:There were the beautiful moments of total confusion when without any desire you confront how much of your ego revolves around sexuality. The huge gaping empty space that was once a fire becomes a peaceful meadow.
JKhedrup wrote:Due to the language of the Vinaya commentaries in Tibetan, I think I understand why your friend heard that. Generally vows are explained as objects of abandonment, so if there is no desire whatsoever, there is no object to abandon. But realistically how many people have no desire at all? I don't think this is a huge issue and I don't think even in the Vinaya Sutras that are translated into Tibetan the Buddha mentions this specifically. The discussion happens during the bit about 'objects of abandonment' and 'discordant classes'. It is the vocabulary of the commentaries that sometimes goes in tangents and leads to interesting teachings on obscure points, but sometimes magnifies what are really small issues.
I feel the hypersexualization of our culture is unfortunate. I think it leads to dangerous situations for women (look at the court case in Steubenville Ohio). You cant even make an ad for bottled water these days unless it involves cleavage. Pornography is widely available, and kids are sexualized at an earlier age leading to an epidemic in teen pregnancy.
Do I think condoms should be available to young people? Of course. Do I support tolerance for sexual minorities? Yes. Do I think that modern culture has a troubling fixation on sex and that this leads to all sorts of societal problems? Definitely.
If we teach kids how to unroll a a condom but don't teach them that sexual urges are controllable and don't need to rule their lives they are getting an incomplete education in my opinion. Balance.
Good Sangha members can demonstrate that there is still life without sex, many of the people I know with the most exciting lives, who have traveled and been exposed toa huge variety of cultures are monks and nuns.
Can you post more about this? Thanks.Nemo wrote:At some point in your practice, especially if you sublimate strong desires, you will begin to call phenomena. My Lama teased me that it was horrible magic as she was so crazy.
MaitriYNOD wrote:I will not claim to be a Vajrayana practitioner, as that title is reserved for people who can do things with their mind that I cannot. However, as someone who has studied with Vajrayana teachers, I must say I am in near-total agreement with Huseng. Vajrayana practices, including consort practice, are to be embraced by an attitude of renunciation and bodhicitta, as these practices are intended to liberate self and others from the suffering of samsara. If you have no desire to empty samsara, then there is no reason whatsoever to engage in Tantric practices. One of the reasons Tantra is considered so advanced is because one requires an unshakable foundations in the sutra teachings, in renunciation and compassion, in order to practice it effectively.
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