YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Why is it called illusion? - Dhamma Wheel

Why is it called illusion?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Why is it called illusion?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:10 am

Dear Members,

During the dreaming time, the dream is going on and happening.

During that state, is the dream illusions or reality?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:12 am

Greetings Darwid,

It is sankhara.

Have you investigated the Sutta and Theravada perspectives on sankhara, and its role in dependent origination? In this regard I highly regard and recommend the teachings of vens. Nanavira and Nanananda.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:14 am

Hi Retro,

I don't know what is shankara. My Pali words are very poor.

Is shankara illusions or reality?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:18 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:22 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:06 am

Thank you for the link.

Will it be appropriate to say that anything is always illusion?

Will it be appropriate to say there Is Nothing it can be reality?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby ground » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:10 am

Last edited by ground on Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:11 am

Why is it called illusion? Unless you are talking about Hinduism, it is not an illusion.

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:21 am

What do you mean? I don't get it.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:23 am


User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:43 am

Ok.

So according to you reality is like an illusions.

Any body with the view that reality is always illusions?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:46 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby ground » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:46 am


User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:50 am

Ok, let's go to the core. We need logic here. Nothing else.

According to you, does the way appear to you same with the way how things exist?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:50 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby ground » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:59 am


User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:03 am

Thanks retro for your offer.

I am just challenging some of our views.

Because seeing reality is like an illusion is very different with seeing reality is illusion.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby ground » Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:05 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:10 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Why is it called illusion?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:27 am

Do we feel that when we see, the things appear in the solid way?

However, when we analyze it, how can it be solid? The things themselves even cannot exist.

When we say something as an illusion, we say it because the way the thing appear is different with the way it exists.

When a magician display the horse with his spell, as the audience, we can see that the horse is illusion because the way the horse appear is not similar with how the horse exist.

Similarly, in our daily life, we see everything as real, as solid. This body is real. But when we analyze this body, we cannot find the body. Similar with car, house, etc. When we see, they look or appear so real, so solid. But when we analyze, like how we analyze this body, they do not exist.

We can then see that the way the things appear (as solid) is not same with how they actually appear (lack of solidness, empty of essence).

Doesnt this discrepancy fulfill the criteria called illusions?
Last edited by DarwidHalim on Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine