Science proof of paranormal world?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby whynotme » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:53 am

Hi everyone,

It seems for most of us, believing in an unseen world is obvious. But why is it so hard for science to catch some proofs of that world? Until now, no proof of devas, mind powers, etc while scientists could see billions years into the universe, see the particles under fm (10^-15m) in size, they could explain many things, but not even a smallest evident or proof about religious things that we think are obvious.

Why?

I know for some reasons, devas don't want to show up, but those are high rank devas, while there are many low rank devas around us, while there isn't any proof? Why don't they contact us? Is there any explanation? I believe for sure, but what do you think?

Regards
Please stop following me

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Ben » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:57 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Kare
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Kare » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:08 am

Mettāya,
Kåre

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:27 am

If science can measure or observe something, it is no longer considered paranormal.
Thunder and lightning used to be gods with thunderbolts (supernatural), now they are electrical discharges in the atmosphere (natural).

:thinking:
Kim

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2637
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:28 pm

Read this summary of experiments regarding telepathy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_experiment
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby DarwidHalim » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:52 pm

I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

santa100
Posts: 2673
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby santa100 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:27 pm

Although there seems to be significant advances in technology and sciences, current human civilization is still very primitive to scientists standard. We haven't even made it to Type I level on the Kardashev scale (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale ). Imagine an extraterrestrial civilization thoudsands to millions years ahead of us, they'd have as much a tough time trying to communicate with us just like we're trying to communicate with our house ants or cockroaches. Technology aside, the progress we've made on the ethical fronts is mediocre at best. Just look at the way humans been treating other species, its own kind, and the environment, to see that we aren't that much more "advanced" than our cavemen ancestors ~ 40,000 yrs ago. So bottom line is, there're still lots of work to be done to get us to where we want to be..

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:39 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

chownah
Posts: 6161
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby chownah » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:50 pm

For science to find evidence of the existence of devas (for instance) then first you would have to define what a deva was in a way so that if one was caught it could be identified.....then you would have to find a way to catch one so that its existence could be verified......or......you would have to define some characteristic which was unique to devas and then find a way to collect evidence of that characteristic.......or.....you would have to define some impact that only devas could make on somthing and then find a way to collect evidence of that impact..........none of these things have happened because to start with no one has offered a definition for what a deva is in a way that can be verified...nor has anyone defined a characteristic which is entirely unique to devas....nor has anyone defined the functioning of a deva which would have some impact on something which can be verified.....in fact as far as I know there is not only no physical evidence which clearly indicates unequivacally the existence of a deva there has also been no one who has unambiguously defined what kind of physical evidence it might be that would inequivically indicate their existence.......

It does not look promising that science could find evidence that indicates the existence of devas.

chownah

Jhana4
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:46 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Ben » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:59 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:00 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

alan
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby alan » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:47 am

Agree with Ben and Retro, and would add that the time spent indulging in fantasies such as Devas and why they have not been discovered by science is worse than a total waste of time--Its a hindrance that will only slow your progress.

User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Pondera » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:11 am

Religion is the science of supernatural.

What scientific investigation requires is not only experience but a way to measure that experience. Space, for example is naturally one of the most basic of scientific realities. We measure it simply by inference. The existence of objects and their separation allow for one to infer the existence of space. That space is dependent on its objects however for any measurement. We can measure the "space" in between objects, but never space itself. And this may be exacting a worrisome boredom in the minds of those better acquainted the theory of relativity but I think it makes the point.

The existence of a paranormal world is, allegedly observed by those with the inner vision of clairvoyance. For scientific proof of this world that observation would need some kind of measurement. I'd write more, but there isn't much a person can say. Seeing is, after all, believing and that applies to a third eye as well I would assume. But how are the blind able to see?

whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby whynotme » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:03 am

Thank you guys for your answers,

Yes I know how science works, I am an applied engineer. Sometimes my English is not good because it isn't my mother language.

I don't agree with Ben and Retro.

I know that arahants 2000 years ago attained Nibbana without science, but we are not them. I think a smart man must know what era he lives in. That era is different to ours, if you think it isn't important then please don't using internet like them and liberation yourself just like them (joke)

Each era has it own problems, and has it own people under those problems. In the Buddha's era, people had different traditions, different priorities, different inclinations, different questions. It is not easy to live like them, think like them in modern history. And because the sake of the people, the Buddha sometimes answered the doubts of people.

It may not important to some people, but it is important to others.

Well, I think every question has its root. If it arises, if we could answered it or not, it depends on each person and his circumstance. I believe if I ask the Buddha this question, he will not answer me like: it is not important, I myself could attain Nibbana without science (joke). Maybe he could explain it for me, because he even explained many things at first is seemed very unimportant to others.

Just some of my thoughts.
Regards.
Please stop following me

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby ground » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:10 am


alan
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby alan » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:15 am

Maybe you should clarify your thoughts before posting them. (joke).

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:11 am

Greetings whynotme,

If Science could prove the existence of Devas, what would that change?
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:23 am

I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Science proof of paranormal world?

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:48 am

If you require scientific proof then your saddha is very immature.
Best that you concentrate on practicing sila, developing samadhi and panna.
Then when you see the results yourself of practicing Dhamma, your saddha will increase and will condition deeper wisdom.
And as I mentioned earlier: Sila, samadhi and panna is that which liberates.
Don't get distracted with idle speculation.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine