Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:12 pm

Passivity can manifest in many ways. If you focus on your achievements then that is passivity. If you collect teachings then that is passivity. If you have problems then that is passivity. If you criticize others then that is passivity. If you can't stay with the transmission of the teachings then that is passivity. If you think that old students know more then young students then that is passivity. If you die without knowing what to do then that is passivity. If you don't know how to integrate the teachings then that is passivity. If you worship your teacher and constantly praise their qualities then that is passivity. There are many forms of passivity because there is not so much realization.
In the end I don't have so many problems with the gars and how things are organized. If we have received Direct Introduction then we can do Guru Yoga. When we do Guru Yoga we can also do Ganapuja if we need to change our situation. So we can actively rely on the teachings to get more teachings if we need to.
Then one last thing. If there is no connection to the Dzogchen teachings then there is not much we can do. If there is no connection then it is impossible to meet with the teaching and teachers. If there is a connection then it is impossible not to meet with the teacher and teachings.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:19 pm

Andrew108 wrote:Are we talking about Dzogchen? About receiving the Dzogchen transmission? Or are we talking about paying for the hundreds of secondary practices we can do because we still haven't understood something.
If there are problems with the Dzogchen Community it is the problem of the proliferation of secondary practices. If a person wants the Dzogchen transmission then it's right there at an unbelievably low cost. It's really simple.
Oldbob and young Andrew are equally fresh? No? I have an idea. If you go to four retreats a year and have been doing that for quite a while, why not instead of going to a retreat, sponsor someone who can't afford it? I don't mean this in a sarcastic or negative way. If you can't change the policy or what the Dzogchen Community has become then why not set up a fund for poor people who cannot attend when the Direct Introduction is given? I think this would be helpful. Also a others have mentioned you might want to get more involved with the gakyil and try to work at it from the inside.


The primary practice is Guru Yoga. My job is to do my best to be present 24/7 with the feature of allowing whatever arises in my continuum to dissolve as it arises (in a non-dual sort of way).

Within this continuum of awareness, I can choose what secondary practices that I would like to do. While you are correct that I don't understand anything, I do have the right to choose what secondary practices that I participate in. Because I like variety, I like to know of many different secondary practices. Then I can choose according to how I am feeling that day. In the DC, this is allowable.

I would explain Andrew's dynamics not through a square peg round hole analogy but by suggesting that he is talking about apples while I am talking about bananas. When you talk about things, you need to talk about apples as apples and bananas as bananas, so it seems he is left holding the apples and I, bananas - or did I get that backwards. :smile:

I usually don't sponsor a poor person for retreats because it is not a good use of money. This only helps one person. Reinventing the DCA so it can help many people - now that is interesting.

Since I have had enough bananas for the day I will end any further dialogue with Andrew here.

ob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:25 pm

Weird. I seem to have lost a post.

Anyway, the gist of it was, Oldbob has pointed out a problem that is, IMHO, by no means imaginary and very much in need of being addressed. And it's not a problem of the US sangha only, far from that. So if there is any way in which I can contribute, I'll gladly be of help.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby simhanada » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:39 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:Weird. I seem to have lost a post.

Anyway, the gist of it was, Oldbob has pointed out a problem that is, IMHO, by no means imaginary and very much in need of being addressed. And it's not a problem of the US sangha only, far from that. So if there is any way in which I can contribute, I'll gladly be of help.


Easiest way to go about changing things, and that is not to say it is easy is to join the Gakyil. The more people on a Gakyil with a similar vision the easier it is to create the change you want. So, one way to go about it is to get together with a few members, get clear what you want to create, join the Gakyil at the same time and make things happen.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Stewart » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:44 pm

Andrew108 wrote:Passivity can manifest in many ways. If you focus on your achievements then that is passivity. If you collect teachings then that is passivity. If you have problems then that is passivity. If you criticize others then that is passivity. If you can't stay with the transmission of the teachings then that is passivity. If you think that old students know more then young students then that is passivity. If you die without knowing what to do then that is passivity. If you don't know how to integrate the teachings then that is passivity. If you worship your teacher and constantly praise their qualities then that is passivity. There are many forms of passivity because there is not so much realization.



Andrew, honestly, re-read this....wtf does it actually mean?! Who told you all these things?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:45 pm

oldbob wrote:My point is that this kind of unfriendly attitude is what is killing the DC. In the context of the thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of volunteer time that I have contributed to Tseygyalgar it was just small minded on their part. Please keep in mind that these are the same folks who spent a million dollars building a dance hall, open to the elements, in the wilds of Massachusetts, for the regular use (in season) of only 20 people.

Ouch....
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Karma Dorje » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:31 pm

oldbob wrote:My point is that this kind of unfriendly attitude is what is killing the DC. In the context of the thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of volunteer time that I have contributed to Tseygyalgar it was just small minded on their part. Please keep in mind that these are the same folks who spent a million dollars building a dance hall, open to the elements, in the wilds of Massachusetts, for the regular use (in season) of only 20 people.


This problem isn't unique. It seems to me that far too many centers are focused more on creating grand edifices than realized practitioners. There really is a tremendous underinvestment in people doing the actual practice, though there are lots of fancy buildings. I think it's a great idea to form some sort of parallel organization or to re-invent the old one and I would be very happy to help in any way I can.

I think many of us have experienced what it is like to be in close proximity to a lama in more private groups. While acknowledging they do many great things, I for one find the bureaucracy of a large organization like the DC to be crazy-making.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:44 am

oldbob wrote:It would have cost them nothing to allow me to attend. What did they prove except that they could exercise authority and keep people from attending, if someone did not meet their expectations of payment. This circumstance is fine from their point of view.

My point is that this kind of unfriendly attitude is what is killing the DC. In the context of the thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of volunteer time that I have contributed to Tseygyalgar it was just small minded on their part. Please keep in mind that these are the same folks who spent a million dollars building a dance hall, open to the elements, in the wilds of Massachusetts, for the regular use (in season) of only 20 people.

What's wrong with this picture?

There has got to be a better way.


oldbob wrote:Next Summer, if I don't go to the Tseygyalgar retreat, I will listen to it on web cast, and be completely happy. If I don't go, it just means that the DC doesn't get the extra money from me, and others, that they could have received if they had allowed member discounts. No big deal for me. BUT THIS IS SYMPTOMATIC OF THE MINDSET OF THE GAKYIL and helps to explain why only 20 people show up for Ganapuja.


Well, oldbob, puts openly some very painful issues....
In fact, I had also similar "accidents" with the local Gakyil here.
Note: I was also part of the Gakyil in the past, so I have a little knowledge how things are working from inside.
Here, only 3-5 people show up for Ganapuja, and sometimes none.
Obviously, the cause is the unfriendly attitude, the exercise of authority, the personal likes and dislikes of people etc.
The cause is always Samsara, it does not matter whether we are playing "Dzogchen" or "not Dzogchen".
I am sorry, I have no answers...... :shrug:

Dzogchen may be direct and simple, but it is not easy!!!


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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sherab Rigdrol » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:21 am

I live in Santa Fe, which is dharma central for the most part. Online for New Mexico there were 3 people of contact for the Dzogchen Community. I emailed them and never got a response. The idea of sangha can really be lost in the West. I've witnessed how a lot center around very accomplished academics and the like creating elite circles of spiritual materialism. I for one wish more sanghas were open, friendly, encouraging and willing to abide by the bodhisattva principles by helping everyone up the mountain, no matter where they are. Not really a jab at DC, but just an observation about the dharma in the west in general.

That being said if there is anyone from Santa Fe or New Mexico in general on this board who is apart of DC, please PM me.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dan Dorje » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:18 pm

Things are going better and better.
In Merigar East, there is a big discount for the newcomers:
"Recommended donations for the Dzogchen Retreat
For people who come for the first time to the retreat Merigar East offers free reduced membership for one year and 50% discount for the retreat! "

This is wonderful!

:thanks:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:44 pm

Dan Dorje wrote:Things are going better and better.
In Merigar East, there is a big discount for the newcomers:
"Recommended donations for the Dzogchen Retreat
For people who come for the first time to the retreat Merigar East offers free reduced membership for one year and 50% discount for the retreat! "


Well, yes but that's nothing new. It's been like that for a couple of years.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:51 pm

The devil makes work for idle minds it seems!

I am going to make a few things clear here because I am sick of the gossip going on around this issue.

A number of posts were deleted at the request of the posters that made them. It is that simple.

There is no conspiracy, nobody is putting fluoride in the web site to calcify your pineal glands, "we" are not out to get "you".

A couple of posts were lost for techincal reasons beyond staff control bzzzzzztttt... bzzzzzztttt... [slaps side of monitor repeatedly]

This was explained to the people whose posts were lost and then their public cries of "cyber-wolf" were removed as they no longer served a purpose.

For future reference: if you feel that something "untoward" is happening or believe that a post or member should be dealt with for one reason or another then contact staff via private message or the reporting function instead of setting off a chain reaction of paranoid delusion :tongue: by making posts that may never be read by a staff member since we cannot be expected to read every single post in every single thread.

Thank you.
Greg

Now back to the regular program...
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby T. Chokyi » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:10 am

Tashigar Sur Retreat
22nd-28th March 2013

Teaching for this retreat is SimhaMukha of Ayu Khandro.

Open Webcast

ARGENTINA'S TIME: GMT-3

22 March

4,30-5,30pm: Introduction about the teaching for this retreat

5,30-6pm: Short Ganapuja for the Day of Guru Rinpoche. And Singing and dancing


23 March

10 am-12pm: Teaching of A.K Simhamukha instructions


24 March

10am-12pm: Giving a Dowang of Simhamukha


25 March

10am-12pm: Teaching of A.K Simhamukha instructions


26 March

10am-12pm: Teaching of A.K Simhamukha instructions


27 March

10am-12pm: Teaching of A.K Simhamukha instructions

4,30-5,30pm: Ganapuja for the end of this retreat and the full moon.


28 March 10am-12pm: Teaching of the Last day of this retreat


In the Webcast Site http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast You will find updated SCHEDULE and informations
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Ish » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:30 pm

Thank you to Rinpoche and the people at the retreat, the webcast was very good.

I wanted to ask what is the song they are playing at the end of the cast, i heard it on a few retreats. It sounds like a Tibetan devotional or folk song.

Best wishes to you all.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:50 pm

Ish wrote:Thank you to Rinpoche and the people at the retreat, the webcast was very good.

I wanted to ask what is the song they are playing at the end of the cast, i heard it on a few retreats. It sounds like a Tibetan devotional or folk song.

Best wishes to you all.


It is the song of the vajra, an all encompassing Dzogchen teaching. The melody is a terma by ChNNR.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Inge » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:29 pm

Maybe you are thinking of the Tibetan Song "Yi Re Kyo" by Kunga. It is played sometimes before or after webcasts. It is on youtube.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Ish » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:37 am

Inge wrote:Maybe you are thinking of the Tibetan Song "Yi Re Kyo" by Kunga. It is played sometimes before or after webcasts. It is on youtube.


Yeah that's the one, thanks brother :thanks: .
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:37 am

Inge wrote:Maybe you are thinking of the Tibetan Song "Yi Re Kyo" by Kunga. It is played sometimes before or after webcasts. It is on youtube.


:smile: right, sorry about that.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:27 pm

Perhaps it would be a good idea to visualize K Yeshe and send him lots of hugs.

:soapbox:

"WITHOUT KINDNESS IT FALLS APART." This is the message of the hugs.

(End of :soapbox: )

Examples of kindness that are easily within K Yeshe's capacity to demonstrate are:

1. Have access to the webcast be from the normal restricted webcast page.

http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webc ... denied.php

rather than from a "special" web address only available from Norbunet. Perhaps some members, who had not checked Norbunet, could not find the webcast.

http://shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/yeshi.php

2. Have the audio level of the English translator be at the same volume level as K Yeshe's voice. Perhaps she just needs to have the microphone closer to her mouth. K Yeshe's voice was booming while the translator's was soft and muffled.

3. Have an English translator whose native language is English, or at least has an understandable pronunciation of English. (I couldn't understand most of her English and I've been going to Italy for 30 years.)

4. Have a separate button for an English only audio feed, that is ONLY webcasting the translator's English. There was a button for Italian. The audio feed buttons are necessary because in some places where they have low quality internet, the lower bit rate, audio-only webcast can get through when the video cannot. Here in Margarita, neither got through consistently.

5. Allow a simultaneous icecast feed of the "old" system / with low bit rate, that sometimes can work when the "new" system does not.

6. ALLOW A REPLAY OF THE TEACHINGS. Here in Margarita, only a very little of the webcast came through, so I have no idea of the content.

If anyone has a recording of these precious teachings, or is making a transcript, please PM me and help me get a copy, as I am very interested in learning "The Secrets of All the Buddhas," from an acknowledged lineage holder such as K Yeshe. If K Yeshe can explicate the very precious Teachings of the Yeshe Lama in terms of science, mathematics, and systems theory, this is cutting edge stuff and I really want to hear what he is saying. Having practiced the Yeshe Lama since 1980 it would be wonderful to be able to "understand" my experiences in a new light, and this would really be evolution.


THE FIRST STEP IS TO HELP THE MESSAGE OF WHAT K YESHE HAS TO SAY, GET THROUGH, IN A GOOD WAY THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE AND COMPLETE.

Then it is possible to begin to relate to the content.

Please remember - send lots of hugs to K Yeshe and maybe things will get better. :smile: :heart:

Oh - and Happy Easter to all, as millions of our Christian brothers and sisters around the world, celebrate the reappearance of the magical form body, of the most respected Dzogchen saint, Jesus Christ.

:smile:

ob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby MalaBeads » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:59 pm

First, many thanks to Khyenste Yeshe for this morning's teachings. What he did there was new and I am quite interested to see how the rest of teachings will evolve. Today was the "epistemology" portion and because of that was understandably intellectually dense. I found it necessary to remain exceptionally focused.

All the more reason to be sure that the sound of what the translator is saying comes through for those who speak English. As OB mentioned, the translators voice was soft and often muffled. I found it necessary to hold the speaker next to my ear to hear what was being said. Any ambient sounds in the teaching room washed out what she was saying. Perhaps having the mic closer to her mouth will help. I did notice a slight improvement, because as time went on, i found I could hear her better. Perhaps i just got used to it, I don't know.

Actually, I am very happy to have these teachings available at all and hope the KY will continue to teach the larger DC. OB has many suggestions. For me, I just want to be sure I can hear what is being said.

And my thanks again to Khyentse Yeshe.
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