Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Wayfarer » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:05 am

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Indrajala » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:37 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Wayfarer » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:59 pm

Agreed. David Chalmers, who has made a career on the basis of 'the hard problem of consciousness', agrees that functional descriptions of particular conscious functions are quite possible. The difficulty is capturing 'what it is like to be...' or as the phenomenologists said, intentionality, what it means for a state of mind or mental image to be 'about something'.

My shorthand way of putting it eventually became 'being is not an object of experience'. This actually goes back to the Upanisadic principle that 'the hand cannot grasp itself, the eye cannot see itself', which I regard as a fundamental philosophical principle.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Indrajala » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:10 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby oushi » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:46 am

Human brain perceives change. If there is no change, perception vanishes. It is called habituation and it is surprising how underrated mechanism it is. There is hardly any info about it, while it shapes the way and the content of what is experienced. It directly shows that if something is stable and unchanging, it is not experienced. Watch a pale shadow on the wall without moving you eyes and it will disappear. But it's not only vision. Every form of perception works like that and that which is covered by habituation is called unconscious mind. A lot of stuff going on down there. Imagine holding your pee all the way from the first droplet in your bladder. Funny stuff, but what we are really interested in, is the mental stuff. Habituation is also responsible for setting the boundaries of our body, actually all boundaries, because without boundaries there is no perception.
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:47 am

Hi Huseng,
Thanks for these posts. I am in agreement with you. It's been 80 or so years since the idea of electrons being standing waves first entered into the physics community. Still people have a concept of hard electrons spinning around a nucleus. Then with QED and Feynman we get the notion of quantum field theory and the idea of electrons as standing waves belonging to a field (much like waves in an ocean). So saying consciousness and the mind might have a material basis isn't the same as saying atoms 'produce' mind. In a lot of so-called higher teachings the animate and inanimate division is played down or overcome. I get the idea that when we go beyond concepts, such distinctions as those between animate and inanimate, brain and mind are no longer relevant.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby lobsang_sherab69 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:33 am


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:55 am

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:08 pm

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby oushi » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:48 pm

Say what you think about me

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:15 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby randomseb » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:26 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:17 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby odysseus » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:21 pm

Disclaimer: I'm not a Buddhist teacher, I speak only from my own understanding. I cannot teach, but I can preach so don't preach to me.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:22 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:24 pm

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby dharmagoat » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:46 pm

:anjali:

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby randomseb » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:08 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:33 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:40 pm

Well, the terminology may be hard to pin down, but I think we have found common ground.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi


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