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Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:15 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:19 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:48 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:15 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:29 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:34 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:46 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:48 am

Hi Retro,

MN117 is the only place in the Suttas you find that distinction, and it seems to be a late addition... :thinking:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 341#p16848

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:53 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:00 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:21 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby Nyana » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:18 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:26 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:01 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby Nyana » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:57 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby Nyana » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:34 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby daverupa » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:33 am


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:38 pm


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby Nyana » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:46 pm


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Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas

Postby Alex123 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:26 pm

Any and every word (from person to citta) is conventional and conceptual. If citta lasts for a split second, then what exactly are we talking about when we say "citta"? Only the idea of a citta... Conceptualization is involved even when speaking about "ultimate reality", so how ultimate can it be? Is the split "ultimate vs conventional" itself conceptual?

Isn't analysis by itself a conceptual activity of the mind?

Does a baby who didn't yet learn conventional truths to be misled by, perceive ultimate truths? No. A person is supposed to learn these ultimate truths... So how real are they?

When it comes to splitting a person into 5 aggregates, the activity is purely abstract. One cannot divide a person in 5 heaps and place body in one heap, feelings in 2nd heap, perceptions in 3rd heap, volitions in 4th heap, and consciousness in 5th heap.

"Feeling, perception, & consciousness are conjoined, friend, not disjoined. It is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them. For what one feels, that one perceives. What one perceives, that one cognizes. Therefore these qualities are conjoined, not disjoined, and it is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

In the 12 āyatana, for example, you can't physically separate mind-sphere (manāyatanaṃ) from mental-object-sphere (dhammāyatanaṃ). One cannot be without the other. Mental object requires mind, and mind cannot be without a mental object. So the separation is purely conceptual, done to illustrate some point, but not to be held as absolute reified analytical truth.
Last edited by Alex123 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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