Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
Yudron
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Yudron » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:26 am

Even an intact brain does not contain cells from only one person:



"We all consider our bodies to be our own unique being, so the notion that we may harbor cells from other people in our bodies seems strange. Even stranger is the thought that, although we certainly consider our actions and decisions as originating in the activity of our own individual brains, cells from other individuals are living and functioning in that complex structure."
Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Andrew108 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:26 am

You read and understand in the Madyamaka literature that eye is empty of eye, brain empty of brain, mind empty of mind, present moment empty of present moment and so on. So you might wonder 'where do I stand?' 'What is all this emptiness appearing?' So we look for answers and meditate and study and reflect and hope to get it and are afraid we won't get it. The brain plays it's part and the mind does too but still we have emptiness appearing.
So we look 'what is this emptiness appearing?' 'Is it just an echo of my awareness?' 'Is it just my brain being in time and not being able to catch time?' What can it be?
If we look at the characteristics of 'emptiness appearing' we can see that it is extremely fresh. We see that no effort is needed to bring it about. We can see that it doesn't really evolve or get established because it is so fresh. It seems to be spontaneous and vivid. We can't call it mind because that would make it stink and not fresh. We can't give freshness a duration. We can't call it brain because it seems that the brain reacts to it rather than causes it. We can't call it awareness because that would be saying that it flows, and it's too fresh to flow. So what do we do? We enjoy it and identify it and eventually become it - represent it. There seems to be a wisdom to it. And the brain? Stuck in dualism. And the mind? Stuck in dualism? So.......emptiness appearing will do for me.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

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takso
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby takso » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:18 am

Mind versus Matter

In Buddhism, the mind-stream is referring to the stream of consciousness. So to understand our minds, we need to understand our consciousness. Basically, there are two terms of the mind i.e. conscious and sub-conscious. In turn, consciousness can be categorised into four layers i.e. mind consciousness, sense consciousness, store consciousness and manas consciousness.

Mind Consciousness

It is regarded as the ‘working’ consciousness or the mind-in-command i.e. the mind that can lead, take charge, concentrate, make decision and convey action. In other words, it is a conscious mind that makes judgments and plans. Basically, the conscious mind is closely related to the physical body or more specifically, the brain. This means there would be a biological clock being attached within it i.e. there would be duration for staying awake and for resting. Without the brain, there would be no conscious mind in existence. Therefore, brain is a necessary pre-requisite for all the mind consciousness to exist; without it, the mind consciousness would be impossible.

Sense Consciousness

It is a consciousness that is derived from our five senses i.e. sight, hearing, taste, touch and smell. Sense consciousness is sometimes called the ‘gate’, and always engages with three elements – the sense organ, the sense object and the experience of what we are seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, or touching. In other words, physical body is a necessary pre-requisite for the sense consciousness to exist; without it, the sense consciousness would be impossible.

Store Consciousness

It is also known as the sub-conscious mind that is somehow independent from the physical body. Store consciousness would act like a museum whereby one could discern with the memory and the information aggregates. This is because within the sub-conscious aggregates, one would discover the sub-memory aggregates. Within the sub-memory aggregates, one would discover the sub-information aggregates. In other words, it is a place whereby one could see through the ‘seed treasures’ of Kamma accumulated from the retained sub-information throughout the series of one’s past lives.

Store consciousness is responsible for the birth and rebirth conditions of individuals. When a person is lying dead, all the aggregates of consciousness would leave the body. However, only the store consciousness would sustain in liberated conditions out of the physical body but not the mind consciousness and the sense consciousness. The switch of the mind consciousness and the sense consciousness would be turned off and it would not carry on beyond the grave because these two types of consciousness are dependent on the physical body for arising – just like shadow follows the body.

In other words, store consciousness (where all kinds of seeds and information are kept) would stay behind in a condition known as the stream of consciousness (always flowing, always present, never interrupted) and the basic cause for the persistent re-arising of personality is the abiding of store consciousness in ignorance; when ignorance is uprooted, rebirth ceases. Ignorance and memory aggregates are closely inter-dependent of each other. The memory aggregate has two main functions i.e. deposits and withdrawals of information – the act of retaining and recalling facts. The rise of ignorance has to depend on the withdrawal of deposited information from the previous events and the deposited information can only be redeemed from the memory aggregate.

Therefore, it is not correct to mention that a newborn being has no memory of a previous life. Every single newborn being would surely bear with the seeds of Kamma deriving from the previous lives. The seeds of Kamma are comparable to deposits of information and the fruits of Kamma are comparable to withdrawals of the deposited information upon maturity. In other words, it is not that the newborn being has no memory of a previous life but rather the fruits of Kamma have not ripened yet. Only upon maturity could the newborn being start to recall events related to his or her previous lives. As a conclusion, without store consciousness, the law of Karma would be impossible in the realm of existences.

Manas Consciousness

It is also known as the cogitating consciousness that is always embracing and attaching to store consciousness. Manas arises from store consciousness and embraces store consciousness as its object. The function of manas is to appropriate store consciousness as its own.

Last edited by takso on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
~ Ignorance triumphs when wise men do nothing ~

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Grigoris
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Grigoris » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:43 am

Source for this please? Thank you!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Parasamgate » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:14 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Parasamgate » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:25 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Parasamgate » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:37 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Parasamgate » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:43 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Parasamgate » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:55 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Parasamgate » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:56 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Parasamgate » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:03 pm


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Adamantine
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Adamantine » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:32 pm

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Vidyaraja
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Vidyaraja » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:06 pm

I always thought that Mind in Buddhist terminology is equivalent to awareness or consciousness and that this consciousness is conditioned by the brain but does not arise from nor ultimately depend on the brain. To observe a brain or to know there is a brain requires an awareness or sentient entity to do so and the same could be said about any fact or thought about the world, whether scientific or not. According to most non-dual philosophies, perceiver, perceived, and perception are really all one, and therefore there could be no world (which includes forms such as "brain") without consciousness. I think this short talk by B. Allan Wallace touches on these subjects to some degree:

Part 1--




Part 2--


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby odysseus » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:55 pm

The mind is stored in/around the brain, but the brain is not the mind.
Disclaimer: I'm not a Buddhist teacher, I speak only from my own understanding. I cannot teach, but I can preach so don't preach to me.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby undefineable » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:56 pm

Last edited by undefineable on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby undefineable » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:16 pm


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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby undefineable » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:22 pm


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Wayfarer
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby Wayfarer » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:45 pm

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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LastLegend
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Re: Mind Is Brain!! Is Mind Is Brain??

Postby LastLegend » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:58 pm

"Form is emptiness, and emptiness is form." This essentially is the same as, "mind is matter, and matter is mind." Why is this? According to dependent origination, things arise interdependently. So that means that there is no such thing as the fundamental particle because such particle depends on other finer particles, these finer particles depend on other finer particles, and so on and so forth. We know that mind is empty that it is not a concept or a thing or anything at all. So then we can conclude that matter is mind, then it follows that mind is matter since they are both but emptiness.

The problem of suffering is when we claim this lump of fresh as self and have thinking to reinforce it. We see nothing else as self but only this lump of fresh. This contradicts with reality that everything comes from the same suchness, and at the physical level we can say everything comes from atoms. Also, the problem with material science is it becomes stuck with appearances or physicality, and thinks that, "this must be it."
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―


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