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Disrobing - Dhamma Wheel

Disrobing

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
rowyourboat
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Disrobing

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:05 am

I would like to know the reasons why monks disrobe. Have you disrobed and if so why? No judgments here- just trying to understand. Thanks.

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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retrofuturist
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Re: Disorbing

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:07 am

Greetings,

And should it pertain to anyone's situation, I would be interested to hear of anyone's subsequent reasons for re-robing!

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

pegembara
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Re: Disorbing

Postby pegembara » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:02 pm

Anyone seen the movie Samsara?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Disorbing

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:26 pm

Ven. Dhammika, in one of his articles estimates that (of those who disrobe) 70% disrobe over issues with lust and cravings. The other 30% disrobe due to boredom.

The successful ones who are able to stick with it, have gone beyond or mostly beyond the issues over cravings and keep themselves occupied with meditation, writing, gardening, and teaching.
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Zom
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Zom » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:05 pm

:goodpost:

I would add a little bit:

Buddha said in SN that monks, who don't restrain themselves in the area of 6 senses, don't practise moderate eating, don't practise meditation - have a possibility to disrobe. But those who do all that - they have no such possibility.

Jhana4
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:25 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Goofaholix
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Goofaholix » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:39 pm


Gena1480
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Gena1480 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:39 pm

this teaching should not be available to lay people

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:03 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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theravada_guy
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Re: Disorbing

Postby theravada_guy » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:15 pm

With metta,

Justin

Buckwheat
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Buckwheat » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:11 am

Temporary ordination is more productive than going to college to join a fraternity.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

Gena1480
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Gena1480 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:43 am

it is matter of right speech
the teaching are available
go ahead and study then
it should be no concern to laity for reason of disrobing
since they did not put the robes on.

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theravada_guy
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Re: Disorbing

Postby theravada_guy » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:17 am

With metta,

Justin

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:28 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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theravada_guy
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Re: Disorbing

Postby theravada_guy » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:51 am

Thank you, Bhante, for that post. It changed my mind on temporary ordination. I can see your point that all monks are technically only temporarily ordained. Even if they never disrobe, death can come at any moment.

That monk that disrobed so many times and attained Arahantship, I guess I read somewhere where that set the limit that you could only take on the robes a total of seven times, but I could be wrong. Maybe the Buddha never explicitly mentioned that. I'm not sure.
With metta,

Justin

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Goofaholix
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:56 pm


Buckwheat
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Buckwheat » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:11 pm

Last edited by Buckwheat on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

Buckwheat
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Buckwheat » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:16 pm

Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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daverupa
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Re: Disorbing

Postby daverupa » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:50 pm

My anecdote is that most seem to disrobe during the 30-45-year-old period, on account of a wish to start a family - at least, they all end up having families.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Disorbing

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:10 pm

I'm not sure if it does serve any useful purpose, though there's no harm in asking. Maybe someone who has disrobed will offer a personal perspective.

In simple terms, greed, hatred, and delusion are the reasons why monks disrobe. Of those monks I have known who disrobed, the number one cause was lust. Most got into a relationship with a woman.

However, that doesn't really answer the question very well. All monks who are not Non-returners still have lust, but they don't all disrobe — they find ways to overcome those feelings. There are other factors at play such as discontent that lead them to get involved with a woman in the first place.

Its a very personal decision, and knowing one monk's reasons is not likely to help someone else. If one asked instead, “Why did you get divorced?” one would get the same kind of answers. Desire for another woman, discontent with the current marriage, but would it help anyone contemplating getting married? It depends on so many different conditions that it is hard to predict what will happen in ten years from now.

Check out the community that you plan to ordain in, stay for an extended period before ordaining, then make your decision. Ten years spent as a monk may not help your career prospects, but its never a waste of time. You will definitely learn a lot about yourself that will benefit you later in life — things that you would probably never learn as a lay person. Think of it as doing a ten-year retreat instead of a 10-day retreat. Someone who disrobes in their thirties after ten years as a monk is more likely to ordain again at sixty-five than someone who has never ordained before.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)


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