Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Anything goes (almost).

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:15 am

:good:
Well said in all regards. Nothing to add...except ..life is short. Lets not make it more difficult than it need reasonably be. There are real battles to be fought. THIS battle is just narcissistic self indulgence.

:namaste:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:27 am

Sadly, Simon, you're very right. I stand the chance of maybe changing someone's mind and refreshing my recall of pharmacology... meanwhile even in the mundane sense I could be getting some badly needed sleep. But much more importantly, samsara rages on for me and others. Point well taken. Good night, all, and may all our practices flourish so one day these relative trivialities are no longer of concern in this world.
Pema Rigdzin
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Thrasymachus » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:28 am

Simon E. wrote:I AM a doctor. I realise that this makes me the enemy, but there we are. :smile:
Incidentally Chnn seems to approve of my vocation.

How could I have missed this? This is the best of example of combining the worst of East and West I have seen by a dharmawheel member.

Are you referring to this man in the yellow:
Image
He better like doctors, with his well known love of meat eating which is probably one of the biggest factors in his obesity, he probably would have died already without cholesterol lowering statins and diabetes medication. So how is he an advocate of health or authority on the good of doctors? By leading by bad example? Incidentally in my state there is a doctor, Joel Fuhrman who on his website has over 416 success stories listed of people who actually reversed chronic problems by adopting the opposite diet and eliminating the love of the Prescription pad. However, people with poor diet love the Rx pad so they can die for longer.
User avatar
Thrasymachus
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Dover, NJ

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:36 am

May you be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.

:namaste:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:42 am

Thrasymachus wrote:In my case they wanted me to prove that I didn't have a disease, tuberculosis, that is virtually eradicated in my country.
Thankfully so, and we all know how it was erradicated now don't we? ;)
Maybe in the future they can force people to prove they don't have every virus or bacterial infection.
I would have no problem with food industry workers being tested for Hep B and C. Truth is that the hygiene standards for infected workers should be the same as for non-infected workers in the industry, but still, we are talking about public health here. At least if a worker is diagnosed with Hep B or C they will know to be extra cautious. Nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately testing is sometimes used in order to adversely discriminate. Yes, discrimination can act positively too.

PS Getting tested for TB is called innoculation and not vaccination. I imagine that you have already been vaccinated against TB anyway when you were a child. Why not just take them your health book showing you have been vaccinated and stick it in their face?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 7937
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Thrasymachus » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:46 am

Oh, I will likely be free of high blood pressure, diabetes, cholesterol. Also from now on I will be free of all the dangerous known and listed ingredients in vaccines, not to mention the unlisted ones as contain animal or human tissue and the attendant viruses, pathogens and bacteria in the included protein sample! And I don't think Buddhist doctrine or meditation has much to with it. I really wish all beings would be willing to cease their suffering by ceasing to exploit others for taste reasons and profit motive.

But I guess that is why from the perspective of most people who from my observation treat their body as a toxic dump that is so easy for them to consider anyone else as crazy for being against vaccines, medication, etc. For them being paranoid is caring about such issues instead of trusting corporations and the medical establishment like a toddler trusts his parents.
User avatar
Thrasymachus
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Dover, NJ

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Thrasymachus » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:53 am

@gregkavarnos:
Sorry you are just ignorant in everything you have written in this thread. In the USA there is no tuberculosis vaccine. Only in the USSR and Soviet bloc, was there a vaccine. From other venues where I have posted the same, Russians and East Europeans complained about false positives and being forced to take X-rays(meaning radiation which will increase their cancer risk afterward) to thus prove they don't have an eradicated disease that less than 11,000 Americans have and less than 600 die from. They are only in other words causing more cancer uptake and secondary problems related to the mantoux test, or doing net harm as usual. I presented to them my old transcripts that showed I was tested previously decades ago, they didn't care.

You know where TB is a big issue? India. Probably because it is a country where most the population is horribly poor and poop into the streets, rivers and waterways. Then they go and fetch water from where or near where they just defecated.
Last edited by Thrasymachus on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Thrasymachus
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Dover, NJ

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:57 am

Thrasymachus wrote:Oh, I will likely be free of high blood pressure, diabetes, cholesterol. Also from now on I will be free of all the dangerous known and listed ingredients in vaccines, not to mention the unlisted ones as contain animal or human tissue and the attendant viruses, pathogens and bacteria in the included protein sample!
Good on yah! Have a medal from me!
Medal.jpg
Medal.jpg (23.62 KiB) Viewed 579 times
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 7937
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:58 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:In my case they wanted me to prove that I didn't have a disease, tuberculosis, that is virtually eradicated in my country.
Thankfully so, and we all know how it was erradicated now don't we? ;)


Greg, FYI, I know a lady who's friends with this guy who was cured of TB by a 2-week acai/goji berry juice fast followed by an organic yerba mate enema and some healing Mt. Shasta crystals he wore for a month after that.



I mean, he was taking big pharma's usual cocktail of antibiotics for several months, but I don't believe for a second that that's what cured him..
Pema Rigdzin
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:00 pm

OK, now I really am taking my own polluted, snarky mind to bed following some practice.
Pema Rigdzin
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:49 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:Sorry you are just ignorant in everything you have written in this thread. In the USA there is no tuberculosis vaccine.
For children? Don't be so sure.
Only in the USSR and Soviet bloc, was there a vaccine.
Bzzzzzzt! Wrong! I had TB shots in New Zealand. My brother was vaccinated in Australia. Children are vaccinated in Greece too. etc...
You know where TB is a big issue? India. Probably because it is a country where most the population is horribly poor and poop into the streets, rivers and waterways. Then they go and fetch water from where or near where they just defecated.
What are you talking about? TB is a lung disease transmitted via infected saliva mainly through coughing and sneezing. It is not a water born disease transmitted via infected excretement. You are talking about meningitis. TB is problematic in India and other 3rd world nations because the health of inhabitants in these nations is generally compromised, thus making them prone to infection. In first world countries it is people with compromised immune systems that are more likely to be infected and suffer from TB.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 7937
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:34 pm

In the UK mandatory innoculation against TB was in place for all 13 year olds..this ran from 1953 until 2005 when the research showed that ( in large part due to the innoculation programme ) management of outbreaks could be targeted to specific groups and need no longer be universal.
So much for health issues being dictated by Big Pharma.
During the 53 years that the programme ran the number of incidents of short or long term undesired effects of the vaccine were miniscule.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Namgyal » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:39 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:Western medicine is indeed flawed in terms of generally focusing on treating the symptoms instead of the root of the illness.

Some believe that modern Scientific medicine is the true descendent of the Knidic school of Ancient Greek Medicine which was so lambasted by Hippocrates for focusing entirely on external symptoms. The problem was that mastery of the Knidic system took several years of study, whereas Hippocrates' own Koan school required about forty years of study, and even then there was no guarantee of mastery. In the present day, in the absence of such 'Sage-Physicians' we have to make do with simple technicians, and to be fair they have done some good work.
Many years ago I met an elderly Tibetan Amchi who over the course of his life had successfully treated thousands of patients who were referred to him by word of mouth. If he accepted a patient into his care then he never failed to cure them, including several hundred who had 'incurable' forms of cancer. When he met someone who was sick he would frequently burst into tears, and in his entire life he never once charged a fee. A group of Western doctors had him made an honorary Professor of Medicine, and they tried repeatedly over many years to get him to work with them, but he always refused, preferring poverty and obscurity. He told me that the Art of Medicine was as big as the whole world, and that Western Scientific medicine knew for example, 'Los Angeles', down to the tiniest detail of every house in every street, but the rest of the world was unknown to them.
:namaste:
Namgyal
 
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:13 pm

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:48 pm

Actual verifiable data regarding the "hundreds of cures of incurable cancer " please.
My oncologist colleagues would be most interested.

And remember under the British NHS system, which is free at the point of delivery, the only issue would be the efficacy and safety of the treatment.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Dan74 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:10 pm

I don't know what can be gained by a pissing contest of Western vs Eastern medicine.

On the other hand it could be valuable if a practitioner of Tibetan Medicine or Ayurveda started a thread on what Western medicine could learn from these systems and what we as laypeople could take on board.

In hospitals here I've come across doctors and nurses who were some of the most remarkable people I've ever met, working around the clock with no consideration for personal needs and comfort to do the best for their patients. It saddens me to see the entire profession unfairly maligned and dismissed. Don't any of you have family and friends whose lives were saved by modern medicine?

It may not be perfect and the system often isn't, especially in the US, despite that horrid Mr Obama trying to change that and make it more accessible, but maybe we should try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

This is what I see a lot of i this thread - wholesale dismissal of vaccines due to some questionable practices and poorly understood pharmacology, wholesale dismissal of Western medicine due to some corruption. It goes on and on. Staying informed and examining things critically is great, but one needs the necessary tools to process the information properly. Oh, I forgot, these so-called tools are just a product of our corrupt and square education system.



Maybe it's time to let our Dads go, let the hatred of authority go and stand on our own two feet?
Last edited by Dan74 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Dan74
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:20 pm

" Sometimes what we find is a solution looking for a problem "

Richard Feynman.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Namgyal » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:26 pm

Simon E. wrote:Actual verifiable data regarding the "hundreds of cures of incurable cancer " please.My oncologist colleagues would be most interested.And remember under the British NHS system, which is free at the point of delivery, the only issue would be the efficacy and safety of the treatment.

I'll oblige if you show me 'actual verifiable data' that ChNN has magical powers :smile:
Namgyal wrote:...they tried repeatedly over many years to get him to work with them, but he always refused, preferring poverty and obscurity.

I'll respect that old Lamas wishes and say no more about him, except to say that he treated every person individually and viewed every condition as unique to that individual, so he had no fixed cures for fixed conditions. He also altered his treatments to take into account auspicious days, the seasons of the year, and the times when the condition itself appeared stronger or weaker, which is identical to the 'crisis' system of Hippocrates.
:namaste:
Namgyal
 
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:13 pm

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:36 pm

Ah.. I see.
So if I provide evidence that a well known and well regarded teacher has powers that no one claims for him, you will release information that will help relieve the suffering of millions of human beings alive right now ?
Otherwise to make a point you will withhold such information ?
Or have I misunderstood ?
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Namgyal » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:58 pm

Simon E. wrote:Ah.. I see.So if I provide evidence that a well known and well regarded teacher has powers that no one claims for him, you will release information that will help relieve the suffering of millions of human beings alive right now ?Otherwise to make a point you will withhold such information ?
Or have I misunderstood ?

What a can of worms...for a start, I make such a claim; Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is a living master of Dzogpachenpo and therefore there is no doubt in my mind that he possesses a wide range of astonishing miraculous powers. For my part, I'm just an old fool who has had the good fortune to bump into some extraordinary people. I only posted my comments to show that there might still be one or two inspiring 'Sage-Physicians' alive in the world today, despite the encroaching shadow of this dark age.
:namaste:
Namgyal
 
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:13 pm

Re: Is it possible to get a religious vaccine exemption?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:10 pm

Maybe...what I know for a fact is that there are many physicians, biologists, researchers, chemists, radiologists and providers of care battling at the coalface in dealing with a variety of enormously complex conditions that cause enormous suffering . ( And which are in large measure due to increased longevity.)
I think those people deserve our support.

Not cast in the role of pantomime villains to support the views of Che Guevara manques and fantasists.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

PreviousNext

Return to Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dhammafriend and 10 guests

>