Illusion

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kalden yungdrung
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Illusion

Postby kalden yungdrung » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:02 pm

Tashi delek,

Sometimes it is not so clear, what is illusion.

There exist many explanations about what is meant by illusion.
So it is very interesting to know your suggestions what would be illusion for you.

Especially in Dzogchen it is difficult to make a clear understanding in the understanding of illusion.


Mutsug Marro
KY
The best meditation is no meditation

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futerko
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Re: Illusion

Postby futerko » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:25 pm

Dzogchen stresses the unity of essence and appearance, so in some ways the idea of illusion can be a bit misleading, rather the truth of appearance is essence and the truth of essence is appearance. In other words, form is emptiness and emptiness is form. Personally, I prefer the idea of the dream-like nature of reality, the self-display of light, sound, and rays.

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songhill
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Re: Illusion

Postby songhill » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:08 pm


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Salomon
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Re: Illusion

Postby Salomon » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:56 pm

Illusion is felt as no more harming, the end of suffering from the phenomena you have seen through. Also illusion mean detachment from phenomena by seeing their real nature. You are free of phenomena concerned and you can never coming back to seeing them as real and able to harm and make you suffer.

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Fa Dao
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Re: Illusion

Postby Fa Dao » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:43 pm

Your body, mind, thoughts, feelings, and everything you perceive that is apparently outside of you are like reflections in a mirror...an illusion. The Nature of Mind is like the mirror...not an illusion.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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futerko
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Re: Illusion

Postby futerko » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:14 pm


krodha
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Re: Illusion

Postby krodha » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:20 am

The reflection of the moon in water is a good analogy, it's valid in that it's an appearance but it isn't anything substantial at all, all phenomena are like that. Appearances do not actually create anything, nor are they anything in and of themselves.

Here's the 8 similes of illusion (sgyu ma'i dpe brgyad):
1. Dream: like a dream, objects perceived with the five senses are not there, but they appear through delusion.
2. Magical illusion: like a magic illusion, things are made to appear due to the temporary coming together of causes and conditions.
3. Hallucination or trompe-l'oeil: like a hallucination, things appear, yet there is nothing there.
4. Mirage: like a mirage, things appear, but they are not real.
5. Echo: like an echo, things can be perceived, but there is nothing there, either inside or outside.
6. City of gandharvas: like a city of gandharvas, there is neither a dwelling nor anyone to dwell.
7. Reflection: like a reflection, things appear, but have no reality of their own .
8. Apparition: like an apparition, there are different types of appearances, but they are not really there.

krodha
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Re: Illusion

Postby krodha » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:34 am


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Fa Dao
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Re: Illusion

Postby Fa Dao » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:20 am

Asunthatneversets and Futerko...
good points, I dont disagree with you I was just being more succinct is all. By seeing the illusory nature of all that I mentioned one can then find the mirror and begin to see the mirrors capacity because after all of that the only thing left is that.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

oldbob
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Re: Illusion

Postby oldbob » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:58 am

Nice song about illusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob0mYdbFjdU

Also interesting is the tsel, dang and rolpa presentation of the three ways that the energy of illusion presents to consciousness:

as reflections of light hitting a crystal, as an object seen in the crystal and as an object seen underneath a crystal, as through the crystal.

Yes, everything can be seen of as the illusory nature of the absence of permanence in anything, yet still it is highly recommend to maintain presence and awareness and always try to fly from the ground up - should you be moved to flap your rushen wings.

:smile:

Drew
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Re: Illusion

Postby Drew » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:23 pm

Off a reflecting surface
that is perfect and smooth
the angle of incidence will
bounce and equal
the angle of reflection.

Practice polishing smooth
your reflecting surface
and witness the bounce of light
from the perspective
of the point between.

The point that bounces
the incident ray
into
the reflected ray
sees both sides
and understands
the complete illusion.

Harold
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Re: Illusion

Postby Harold » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:51 am

The practice of Buddhism is an ILLUSION which replaces other ILLUSIONS.

For most sentient beings Buddhism is a necessary ILLUSION, but ultimately Buddhism is JUST ANOTHER ILLUSION.

Teaching from the long deceased Gesar Kusali Rinpoche.
:namaste:

oldbob
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Re: Illusion

Postby oldbob » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:13 pm


Dronma
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Re: Illusion

Postby Dronma » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:01 am

Illusion is the struggle to conceive the inconceivable.

Illusion is the struggle to make permanent the impermanence.

Illusion is the struggle to solidify the fluidity.

Illusion is the struggle itself.
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

oldbob
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Re: Illusion

Postby oldbob » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:57 pm


dorjeshonnu
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Re: Illusion

Postby dorjeshonnu » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:45 pm


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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Illusion

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:13 am

IMHO

Illusion is:

One/many
Both/neither
And/or
Same/separate
Essence/energy
Real/unreal
'Exists'/'does not exist'
Waking/dream
Inexpressible/expressible
Is/is not
Freedom/love
Life/death
Bliss/suffering
Beyond name and form/name and form
Wisdom/compassion
Inclusion/exclusion
Middle/extreme

It is also none of these things.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Illusion

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:34 pm

The best meditation is no meditation

krodha
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Re: Illusion

Postby krodha » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:43 am


Andrew108
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Re: Illusion

Postby Andrew108 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:57 am

The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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